Poll: How large is your flat (gross sq. ft)?

[MovingIn07]

just wondering which aspect do you find that locals hired workers are crap, near native english, socal intergration within other employees, dedication, team work, productivity and how do they compare to overseas raised chinese within your tutoring centre

We're a consultancy firm operating (almost exclusively) outside Hong Kong. Local HK'ers tend not to compare well with others (including mainland chinese, of whom we employ quite a few) in terms of work ethic, ability to communicate (yes, their English is much worse than the mainlanders, go figure!, and we write all our reports in English for Native English speaking clients), willingness to speak up and defend an argument (we are a CONSULTANCY - the ability to formulate and then defend an argument is paramount in our business) and analytical skills. Pure maths - fine. Ability to take a problem, break it down into component parts, THEN analyse it - sorely lacking.

Mostly I put this down to the local education system though, because our Mainland guys (all educated overseas) are fine, so it's nothing inherently to do with "chinese-ness". If I were running a shipping company it might be different.

[Creative83]

We're a consultancy firm operating (almost exclusively) outside Hong Kong. Local HK'ers tend not to compare well with others (including mainland chinese, of whom we employ quite a few) in terms of work ethic, ability to communicate (yes, their English is much worse than the mainlanders, go figure!, and we write all our reports in English for Native English speaking clients), willingness to speak up and defend an argument (we are a CONSULTANCY - the ability to formulate and then defend an argument is paramount in our business) and analytical skills. Pure maths - fine. Ability to take a problem, break it down into component parts, THEN analyse it - sorely lacking.

Mostly I put this down to the local education system though, because our Mainland guys (all educated overseas) are fine, so it's nothing inherently to do with "chinese-ness". If I were running a shipping company it might be different.

From your demography with mainland from abroad vs locals here, it's a matter of privilege.

If someone from China can speak English well & went abroad, they tend to be the mainland Chinese who goes abroad for 2 years to do their masters degree. In other words, they have to pay up around ~$800,000-$1,000,000HKD for their program and living expenses.

It also means they are the privileged class Mainlander who, from the day they were born, has all the resources necessary to get into the best school that has the best teachers with the best tutor and maximum exposure to what the world offers.

You can't actually compare that with a kid in Tuen Mun whose parents has a combined income of $25,000HKD / month or less. Even if the kid does get into a University, it's not the same. His starting point will be at age 18, and the privileged mainlander's starting point will be at age 0. Though the kid will have a pat in the back for a job well done to get to that point.

Mainlanders who goes abroad for education in the past decade are not in the same social class as the ones you find in shenzhen or even your typical locals here.

I don't find Mainlander speak English well back when I was a student - though it's sufficient that it's functional. In some class, the proportion of students were 75% mainlander to 25% the rest. So my sample size is sufficient for me to draw at least that conclusion. If they actually spoke well, and they weren't raised from abroad, then they're either simply just talented or even more privileged than the privileged.

[dutchmen]

My wife's niece (local HK) has repeatedly showed me her diplomas depicting her straight A's for English. At the same time she keeps making grammar and word choice mistakes any Brit/Yank/Aussie would feel ashamed off doing while being drunk.

On the other hand I have a friend (local HK) who spend several years in the UK studying. His English is superb.

They are both middle class and absolutely didn't had tutoring 24-7 since their birth.

I think openness to experience and the need to use a language make a big difference.

[Creative83]

My wife's niece (local HK) has repeatedly showed me her diplomas depicting her straight A's for English. At the same time she keeps making grammar and word choice mistakes any Brit/Yank/Aussie would feel ashamed off doing while being drunk.

On the other hand I have a friend (local HK) who spend several years in the UK studying. His English is superb.

They are both middle class and absolutely didn't had tutoring 24-7 since their birth.

I think openness to experience and the need to use a language make a big difference.

If you're referring to my post, what you said wasn't contradicting at all to what I said. As a matter of fact, I don't disagree with what you said.

But if you're not a foreigner and haven't been hired in such a way, you wouldn't know exactly what i meant.

Have you ever heard the native Japanese speak English? They get 100% on their English oral tests, but you can't understand anything that comes out of their mouth. Yet, the teacher gave her 100% while the student proudly pad herself on the back - think of all the effort the student put in just to be encouraged to get it wrong. I witnessed that in a Kumon center in Japan. It's insane what goes on over there. You have these weird ass franchise centers where teachers doesn't have the ability to do what they're suppose to. So don't get mixed up between tutoring and quality tutoring. It's very different. Not to mention the ratio of teacher to student matters just as importantly. And you know who are the ones with Kumon type access? The low income families. Now if you will excuse me, I need to vomit on reality.

[Matt_NT]

Came to put flat size but this is more interesting.

I believe that there are obviously excellent workers in HK but I'd imagine these people have had an international education (local or overseas). The local education stream is suited to much creativity so given a problem local people don't have the skills to solve it.

On the spoken English issue I agree that top marks are awarded to students who can't speak at a near native level but their grammar is much better than a native. It comes down to the priority.

At the end of it all you can't beat first hand experience in a native country.

Finally 600sq ft net with garden

Sent from my GT-I8190 using GeoClicks Mobile

[Morrison]

It's not much but it's enough.

[INXS]

700sqft with a large terrace and a view of Min07s boat.

[Joseph098765]

GEO Expat has quite a few rich members ... nice to see that.

[Morrison]

the thread how to retire early in HK was before you joined

[INXS]

the thread how to retire early in HK was before you joined

That's right. Most of us retired months ago and now sit about in our big houses posting on Geoexpat...