CAUTION in choosing apartments/agents

[chimo]

...As one of the previous posts stated--the agent will misstate the truth--we were told at first we could break our lease after 14 months and now we are told leases cannot be broken unless we move back to the US or he leaves his company. They also tell us they cannot possibly give advance notice b/c they are now selling off each individual apt.

You are not making much sense here. If your contract says that you can break the lease after 14 months, then why don't you just do that? The standard is 12 month contract, with 2 months notice that you want to leave after the 12 months have passed. So if 12 months have passed, just tell them you want out.

Sorry about the frustration you are having, but this is how it is in HK. These are the laws:
EPD - Legislation for Management of Noise
Pretty much anything goes between the hours of 0700 and 1900.

I still don't see how you were lied to by the agents?

[jgl]

When you ask these questions in front of the agent mumto2, it might be a good idea to record the conversation of everything that the agent has said yes or no to.

<snip>
You can buy BIC lighter sized mp3 recorders with inbuilt mics for loose change these days, and they are worth their weight in gold in this town, when conducting any important purchases etc.

Any idea what the legal issues on this are? Presumably you'd have to be upfront about the recording otherwise it would be legally inadmissible (and possibly illegal?)

[mumto2]

I would be completely upfront about recording it anyway - hey I'm a mum with 2 kids in tow looking at a million apartments - I'm recording it and taking pictures so I don't forget anything! lol

[Skyhook]

JGL was that a rhetorical question ?

Not much point recording a conversation if you dont have permission, is there ?

I always just say. "do you mind if I take some notes by recording the details of this property? " They always say yes, so its not a problem, if they refuse, I just find somebody else who will.

It's not like there is a shortage of real estate agents out there.

[elle]

i have read about the renovations that apartments are legally obliged to do every 7 years, i think...you poor thing, what a disaster. i am about to move to HK and had already made a note to ask the agents/owner when the next renovations were to be done on the prospective building...hope you get some silence soon

That is the case in Discovery Bay only. According to City Management rules every village (not apartment) has to be renovated every 7 years. The extend of the renovation is discussed and decided in the General Owners Meeting preceding the renovation.

[mumto2]

Thanks Elle, I knew I had seen it!

[Tibi]

HLSHK, I leave in Hillsborough Court as well and luckily I do not have all the inconvenience you are facing....my tower is so quiet, clean and nice! However let me know if there is anything I can do to help....it must be horrible

[chimo]

HLSHK, I leave in Hillsborough Court as well and luckily I do not have all the inconvenience you are facing....my tower is so quiet, clean and nice! However let me know if there is anything I can do to help....it must be horrible

I am always sceptical when people go on forums with complaints (Cathay and HSBC are frequent targets). It is not fun having to spend your whole day in noise, but that does not give you the right slander people/companies. If the agents had broken any law, then you would be in the real world with a case to argue instead of here posing a rant.

[HLSHK]

Since this is my first ever forum posting--I'm rather fascinated by the quick and numerous replies! If I may just respond to a few: "mumto2"--thank you so much for your caring responses. "Tibi"--thank you too, which tower are you in?! I am in the "Royal Tower". "JGL"--the laws on recording conversations without consent vary by state in the US--but I have no idea what the laws are in HK--but "Skyhook" is correct--there are lots of agents out there so find the one you feel you can be most honest with. And, lastly, to "Chino", first--I very much appreciate the link to the "law" in HK--I was about to start researching online. And, as for the RE agent lying to me--my fiance's HR person told him yesterday that the lease between the LL and his company could not be broken for 2 yrs (the length of his initial contract) not the 12+2 that the RE told us the lease said. As I said, I am a former tenants atty, so I am embarrassed that I didn't even read the lease (this was one where the company, not I, acted as the Lessee). As to your final post about ranting rather than acting legally, I have this response: First, I was told my the LL's agents that there was a "right to quiet enjoyment" of one's rental home. In the U.S., that means free from excessive noise amongst other factors. I was told yesterday that that same clause in HK means only free from unsolicited entry into your apartment. Today I was about to start researching the veracity of that statement to gather fodder for any potential legal action and to that end I agree-one should investigate the laws to the best of their abilities. But, to your point of ranting--that was not my intent--I posted this on the "moving to HK" forum as a warning--so that other people need not needlessly suffer as I have for so many months--ESPECIALLY people who have children who need to nap or people, like me, who work from home. (Not to be a law snob, but this is not slander--and defamation is not actionable when it is true) At the risk of alienating or offending other people on this forum, it's funny you mention HSBC. While there are many wonderful people working there and I understand their retail banking is quite well thought-of in HK--there is a reason people have spoken ill of it. For the last 5 years I have practiced and taught consumer law--specializing in predatory lending/mortgage fraud--and HSBC and its affiliates were, by far, the defendant we were in litigation with the most (in 2003, the attorneys general in all states in the US sued them and HSCBC was forced to pay about $350,000,000 USD as compensation for their fraudulent lending practices.) This is a clearly a topic for another forum--but, just as people would perhaps like to warn others of finance companies and banks with mortgage lending operations where there is a pattern and practice of deceit & fraud, so I would like to warn others as well of a pattern and practice of deceit as well. Five years ago, nobody really understood what I did for a living--in the midst of one of the largest credit crises originating from the subprime crisis in the U.S. that you probably read about every day--finally people are listening and understanding systemic fraud in lending was happening---even at the biggest & loftiest banks in the world. So, perhaps you should not be reading forums such as this if you don't want to be educated about real problems people face. It's the real world--and, for all the clients I couldn't help as they were being foreclosed upon--maybe a forum to complain and warn others about HSBC was their only access to "justice". The irony: Sung Hung Kai is a publicly traded company--their biggest (40%) stockholder? HSBC.

[Beanieskis]

HLSHK

Did your problem ever resolve itself? We are considering renting in Hillsborough Court, are renovation works still ongoing?

(Just an aside - if the lease is between your husband's employer and the landlord, shouldn't your discussions have been with your husband's employer?)