CAUTION in choosing apartments/agents

[HLSHK]

As someone who moved to HK last June and has lived in high-rises in NYC and elsewhere for the last 15 yrs., I feel I have an obligation to warn prospective ex-pats/tenants. We live in Hillsborough Court (mid-levels). The LL (same LL as Dynasty Court) has been doing construction for 8 months--heavy-duty jackhammering into nearly every neighboring apartment with no advance notice despite repeated entreaties to find out what other apartments will be renovated. The sound is so loud you cannot even speak on the phone, let alone hear yourself think. As a former legal services tenant's attorney--who has the misfortune of working from home--this constant noise has inflicted great misery on us and on our neighbors. You will soon realize tenants have no rights in HK. SO--a word of warning: unless you would like to live in a construction zone--do not rent from Sun Hung Kai (LL) , through Kai Shing (Management co), Signature Homes (Leasing agent), and regrettably think twice before using the services of Sallmanns or Savills (Real Estate Agents). While it is unclear whether these agents knew of the terrible conditions we were about to face--it is worth noting that they are potentially not "clued" in to the market to know of such construction. Feel free to contact me with any questions.

[mumto2]

i have read about the renovations that apartments are legally obliged to do every 7 years, i think...you poor thing, what a disaster. i am about to move to HK and had already made a note to ask the agents/owner when the next renovations were to be done on the prospective building...hope you get some silence soon

[ontheroad]

I think all the management companies do this. We rent from Savills and they didn't give us advance warning on the six months renovation work either. And forget about rebates! They even refused to wash our windows after the work was done and our windows were brown from the dust!

[Skyhook]

When you ask these questions in front of the agent mumto2, it might be a good idea to record the conversation of everything that the agent has said yes or no to.

On important issues, ask the questions a second time 30 minutes later, rephrased, because later on if what they said wasn't true, you have a leg to stand on, and avoid any confusion, providing you have a record of the conversation in its entirety.

Comes in handy,
you know those situations, "but the agent said so" and the agent says : "i never said that" and then you play the original conversation back .... Priceless when they have been caught out blatantly.

You can buy BIC lighter sized mp3 recorders with inbuilt mics for loose change these days, and they are worth their weight in gold in this town, when conducting any important purchases etc.

Its also a good idea when signing rental contracts to have an extra clause included that states that in the event of major building works that creates distress to the tennant, a reduction of rent, or alternative accomodation be made available at the landlords expense, over the duration of the major building works. Make sure that any extra clauses that are included, are signed in triplicate, you, the agent and a witness, otherwise its not worth the paper that its written on.

[mumto2]

skyhook - you are gold! yeah i remember all all ways of asking questions from when we lived in beijing - you are so right! i will certainly be asking for that clause!

[HLSHK]

Just to add--it is impossible (and I have learned, a vital part of Chinese culture, with all due respect) to speak to the head of any of these organizations, due to the hierarchial structure they purposely institute. So, complaints whether oral, written, or even recorded (in my case video/audiotaping the construction) have had no effect--though I agree-keep vigilant records in the off-chance you can use them. Finally, when I realized my litigation skills got me nowhere--we resorted to contacting my fiance's HR dept. to see what they could do (just this week). As one of the previous posts stated--the agent will misstate the truth--we were told at first we could break our lease after 14 months and now we are told leases cannot be broken unless we move back to the US or he leaves his company. They also tell us they cannot possibly give advance notice b/c they are now selling off each individual apt. And, they have tried to tell me this is the same for all apts. in HK--though I have friends living in 7 different apt. buildings in the mid-levels and nobody has had such terrible conditions for so long. Where do you live, "ontheroad"?
My neighbors and I have realized the only way to potentially affect the LL--even during our most optimistically naive moments (incidentally the 3 chairman together constitute the 25th richest people in the world) is through exposing them and the real estate agents and management,etc. by working through the employers who relocated us and through public forums so that future expat arrivals will not rent from them and have to endure the same misery and blatant lies. As one person below said, they wouldn't even clean the windows--my neighbors complained that dust fell from their ceiling into their apt. I told management that lead paint chips/dust is poison for children--they told me they dont use lead--but after 8 months of lying to us I dont believe them. We, thankfully, dont have children yet (b/c i simply cannot imagine how they would ever nap!), but as someone who has a sleep problems & works from home I specifically asked ahead of time if the people upstairs would have children--knowing the running around would bother me and my agent from Sallmanns told me "No". Well, they do--and run around like crazy b/c they are 5 --and the ceilings are made of aluminum foil. (of course, now my upstairs neighbors and I are great friends who commiserate!) Whether my real estate agent was lied to or lied to me, I will not know--but what I have come to realize is that everyone "passes the buck" and this LL is all about greed. I hope you won't have the same experience, "mum2to"--HK is really a great place in many respects. It's just that your home should be your sanctuary and there is no right to quiet enjoyment in HK law as there is in the US and i imagine other countries--so, you should do whatever you can to speak with people in the buildings you are considering before signing anything. And, lastly--do your best to stay far far away from the organizations I have listed.

[mumto2]

oh you poor thing...i feel so bad for you...you're right, your home should be your sanctuary...funny, our agent through our company said that after 12 months, you could give 1 months notice...hmmm...

[PDLM]

i have read about the renovations that apartments are legally obliged to do every 7 years

Eh? That's totally ludicrous.

[mumto2]

"DB is allowed to make an extensive renovation every 7 years"

Sorry, this is what I actually read when researching about noisy renovations etc...I guess that's why I used the words "I think" after my statement

[goleoboy]

I feel sorry for you... dealing with drilling constantly and smell of toxic paint really sux big time. That's why we stayed away from the brand new towers at Park Island, the brand new units have contruction happening on almost EVERY SINGLE FLOOR... it's another reason to live in the village house...