Landlord refusing to return deposit, despite written agreement

[arathi]

Sounds a bit screwy, the whole thing. Good luck.

The thing is we have no intentions whatsoever of screwing anyone, really.

The landlady was already invited to visit and check herself the (still) damaged gas stove and to inspect the entire flat for that matter - and we are still waiting.
We also proposed to have a property surveyor to assist us during the final inspection (see OP post) and we are prepared to cover any damage in our responsibilities - if any, once the inspection report was agreed upon.

Plus, we are also willing to negotiate an early end of the lease (she is not happy with our lease, "rent to low, laa") as soon as she agrees to return our deposit - either in full or after any deduction we may agree upon - the very same day we leave the flat.

[Amypitpit]

Send everything to the landlord by the pink slip registered post , it has to sign for it or its returned within days.The slip for normal registered post can sit in a post box for weeks or even months, nobody has to collect it if they don't want to.

Surveyors - Very expensive and if you do go that way ask what experience they have. They should be able to give some court references. I hired one and the quality of written English in the report was.. Hemmmm! So that has to be watched out for.

Landlords are entitled to return deposits 14 days after you leave the property.

Did you sign for an inventory? If the gas cooker is not on that then she can't deducted anything.

Go through the place and if any thing does need repairing then organize your own guys to do it. It will be much cheaper. If you have drilled into walls for pictures or brackets then remove them and fill them in. If the landlord does it then you could get charged for painting the whole wall.

[Natfixit]

Thanks a lot Amypitpit, I'll have to check again but it might be something similar with that clause in our lease.

The Towngas will send us the full report these days but the thing is - and I know this is laughably foolish - we don't have a post address for the landlady!

We do have a phone number and an e-mail address (and HK id number) but she speak no English and we speak no Mandarin so for any communication, we always relay on her real-estate agent.
That is, during the lease; what will be if we will have to communicate with her after the end of the lease (e.g. deposit refund) - is just another thing to worry about.

After reading your story, espc about the old, faulty stove et al is that your landlady shows no concern at all about safety and has her greedy eyes only on the money. If that stove, pipes and all blows up, then the entire building faces extreme damage or even death and injury. If that occurs, then she is REALLY in for a huge bill because she ignored all warnings to fix the problem. I do hope that your case is watertight as is the lease contract so you can leave blameless. I have not experienced this here in HK, but in Dubai when useless workmen punctured a gas pipe while installing a water pipe over our kitchen ( Middle Eastern building construction would have to be some of the worst I have seen! ) and gas was leaking for a week. i could feel the effects and smell it but strangely no one else could until I called the gas company out who detected the problem and fixed it...the day before we went on holiday. Flights booked...who knows what could have happened while we were away. So I suggest, get out, find a new place, and keep the last two months depo you paid.

[arathi]

Many thanks to all of you for sharing your thoughts and experience, it was/ is tremendously helpfull.
Will be back with the end of this story.

[arathi]

Send everything to the landlord by the pink slip registered post , it has to sign for it or its returned within days.The slip for normal registered post can sit in a post box for weeks or even months, nobody has to collect it if they don't want to.

Surveyors - Very expensive and if you do go that way ask what experience they have. They should be able to give some court references. I hired one and the quality of written English in the report was.. Hemmmm! So that has to be watched out for.

Landlords are entitled to return deposits 14 days after you leave the property.

Did you sign for an inventory? If the gas cooker is not on that then she can't deducted anything.

Go through the place and if any thing does need repairing then organize your own guys to do it. It will be much cheaper. If you have drilled into walls for pictures or brackets then remove them and fill them in. If the landlord does it then you could get charged for painting the whole wall.

* according with our lease the deposit should be returned within 7 days - but the all discussion is about landlords refusing to do so and about finding a solution to avoid loosing our money
* we do have an inventory - the fridge is there as is the washing machine and the gas cooker; it doesn't mean we have to pay for these items if they stop working. Or it does?
* the towngas is coming to meet the landlady and to explain what cause the glass top to explode - so at least we can sort this out
* the landlady will be visiting tomorrow and I hope we can reach an agreement - meanwhile gonna check the all flat again - thanks a lot for taking the time

[Amypitpit]

* we do have an inventory - the fridge is there as is the washing machine and the gas cooker; it doesn't mean we have to pay for these items if they stop working. Or it does?

Unfortunately unless your contract says the landlord is responsible it would seem from info I have seen that you are responsible- but then there should be a clause as well saying reasonable wear and tear. I don't see how you can be responsible to replace an old cooker.

If she is a pain go for the...
Its also common law that the premise has to be fit for human habitation, I don't see how you can live in a gas chamber with shattering glass flying everywhere!

Gas appliance are suppose to be inspected regularly as well.

I would record any conversation you have as well cause a lot gets changed with translations from Chinese into English,

[Skierx]

After reading your story, espc about the old, faulty stove et al is that your landlady shows no concern at all about safety and has her greedy eyes only on the money. If that stove, pipes and all blows up, then the entire building faces extreme damage or even death and injury. If that occurs, then she is REALLY in for a huge bill because she ignored all warnings to fix the problem. I do hope that your case is watertight as is the lease contract so you can leave blameless. I have not experienced this here in HK, but in Dubai when useless workmen punctured a gas pipe while installing a water pipe over our kitchen ( Middle Eastern building construction would have to be some of the worst I have seen! ) and gas was leaking for a week. i could feel the effects and smell it but strangely no one else could until I called the gas company out who detected the problem and fixed it...the day before we went on holiday. Flights booked...who knows what could have happened while we were away. So I suggest, get out, find a new place, and keep the last two months depo you paid.

You are very lucky. About 2 years ago back home the gas company was testing the gas lines near a property I own, the inspector drilled an 1/8th inch hole in a 2 inch pipe causing a massive gas leak. The gas filled a nearby building and caused an explosion that left a 20 foot crater where the building stood and destroyed an entire city block. Thankfully no one was killed and the property I own wasn't condemned, but they just finished the repairs this past summer.

Gas leaks are really nothing to mess with, if you smell gas you should call the police and the gas company immediately and get out.

[arathi]

The landlady suddenly canceled the flat inspection :

As we agreed few days ago, we were to meet up all of us today and clarify things.
So when the TownnGas called and announce their arrival I called the real-estate agents  - they always act as intermediary and they are like 10 minutes away (yes, two of them involved, we are all language-challenged in this story). So told them the news: the town gas is coming in 30 min so the landlady is invited, as it was already planned - to discuss and decide.
But they say “no need, no need - you alone, stay there the stove is coming”!!

It turned out that the landlady chose and ordered a 5000 HKD stove on our name  that we were expected to entirely pay for it; as the TownGas said “no money now, gas bill”.
And she didn’t even bother to ask us first!

Now, that is our landlady! It doesn’t sound like she is gonna win an integrity test, no!

However, lucky enough I was on the phone with the TownGas asking them for the damage report when the stove arrived so I could explain to this English speaking guy that we never order the stove and that we know nothing about it; and he then cancel the order and asked the delivery person to take the stove back.

[Soutie]

I have been a Tenant & a Landlord in HK over the last 17 years & have experienced some unusual situations and this appears to meet the criteria as unusual, and I think the fact that the Tenant is a foreigner and so is the Landlady just make things worse.

From my experience I would simply not pay the rent for December 2015 or January 2016 (I anticipate that this is equivalent to your security deposit under the lease agreement between the 2 parties. I see a lot of people mentioning that not to pay the last 2 months is a breach of contract, and technically it is, but you have to consider what sort of Landlady will pursue this through the courts because there is the expense of the whole process, the risk that her outrageous behaviour will be opened up in court and that if you refused to move out it would cost the Landlady a chunk of money to take you to court for not providing vacant possession plus the lack of a new tenant would mean she would be losing income.

I don't know much about dealing with Mainlanders per se but lots of HK Landlords will try to frighten Tenants with threats of court action and the like but the reality is most of the time this is simply "sabre rattling" to try to get more out of the deal than they should. So don't pay, hold firm and keep possession until the final day of the lease. Tell the Landlady and the Agent that if they want anything else then you will see them in court. Upon the last day of the lease formally write and invite the Landlady and Agent to a joint inspection at a fixed time and if they do not show up take pictures yourself and return a copy with all of the keys to the Agents office.

As a landlord if someone provided vacant possession on time and returned the apartment in a similar condition save for general wear and tear there is not much I can do - just a missed opportunity to relieve some foreigner of some more money because he / she was silly enough to listen to me. At the end of the lease I have received the full rental amount.

It will be interesting to see what happens next!

[arathi]

Y

Original Post Deleted

Yes, that s pretty scary; one can order what ever one wants - on the cost of somebody else ....that's bad!
Obviously what the landlady did is simply fraud - but the TownGas is a reputable company....They should - at least ask for confirmation.

Maybe I should fill in a complain?