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Landlord withholding entire deposit

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  1. #31

    YEP..DO YOUR HOMEWORK...AND USE THE SAME PHRASES THAT THE JUDGE USES IN HIS JUDGEMENTS (THOSE IN YOUR FAVOUR) and add them to your claim...and with supporting case quoted...and do your own advanced search.

    Also, a group of firms in HK advertise free legal advice face to face or telephone ...you might as well make use of it.

    ChooseHKLawyer

    njstone9 likes this.

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by dinosaurs88:
    Here, I did some homework for you. but do more yourself.
    The case below is about the tenant renting an apartment and afterwards found mould on the walls. and when she cleaned the mould the paint came off.
    https://legalref.judiciary.hk/lrs/co...posit%29&TP=JU
    Wow this is so dull, and yet such interesting reading all at the same time. Thanks for digging this shit up!
    HK_Katherine likes this.

  3. #33

    ha ha ...no problem..I am very good at research. Took me 5 minutes. Suggest you read with alcohol .

    Sage likes this.

  4. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by dinosaurs88:
    Here, I did some homework for you. but do more yourself.
    The case below is about the tenant renting an apartment and afterwards found mould on the walls. and when she cleaned the mould the paint came off.
    https://legalref.judiciary.hk/lrs/co...posit%29&TP=JU
    Thanks for this, I read through the entire case. Glad to see justice prevailed

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by dinosaurs88:
    Here, I did some homework for you. but do more yourself.
    The case below is about the tenant renting an apartment and afterwards found mould on the walls. and when she cleaned the mould the paint came off.
    https://legalref.judiciary.hk/lrs/co...posit%29&TP=JU
    I couldn't find anything about paint coming off but I did find this regarding fair wear and tear in this case (Lee Ho Seok v Kanvest Limited), which I think might be useful especially as it applies to 'nicer' apartments (relevant parts highlighted)

    14. If the leased premises are in a very bad condition in need of repair, obviously the outgoing tenant, before he vacates the premises, has a duty to carry out reasonable repair work, the standard of which is to be judged according to factors such as the neighbourhood of the premises. However, that does not necessary mean that the outgoing tenant has a duty of redecorating the leased premises to the satisfaction of the new tenant. This was exactly what the Defendant had asked the Plaintiff to do, which simply cannot be right.

    15. As the learned author of the Hong Kong Tenancy Law by Malcolm Merry, supra, has noted in the passage above, the standard of the duty to repair for leases in Hong Kong has to be decided according to the local circumstances. In England, a lot of the leases are long-term leases involving large estates. In such cases, prospective tenants would not expect the premises to be in perfect condition when they take up the leases. In Hong Kong, most of the leases are short-term leases involving small flats, and the tenants would usually demand the premises to be in much better condition. They would not tolerate minor “fair wear and tear” defects, and so the landlords would usually have to carry out some minor redecoration work before leasing out the properties again. Hence, the outgoing tenants do not have the burden of redecorating the premises to the satisfaction of the new tenants. In the present case, one may perhaps say that the repair work by the Plaintiff’s contractor was not perfect. However, taking into account that the landlords in Hong Kong are usually expected to carry out some minor redecoration work before letting out the properties again, and that the condition of the Premises after the Plaintiff’s repair work was quite satisfactory, I do not find that the Plaintiff was in breach of the covenant to repair. The Defendant’s complaint in this regard is therefore unjustified.

    Dirt marks and “fear wear and tear”

    16. From the photographs, I can see that there were some dirt marks in the walls. However, I am of the view that these marks were “fair wear and tear” caused by reasonable use of the Premises on the part of the Plaintiff. Bearing in mind that the Plaintiff had to move furniture in and out of the Premises during the term of the tenancy, which could easily result in some marks being left in the walls, and that the dirt marks were not particularly serious, I do not find that the Defendant’s complaint is justified in this regard. The new tenant might not particularly like these dirt marks, but as they were “fair wear and tear”, the Plaintiff had no duty to remove these marks to the satisfaction of the new tenant.

    19. In the Burkeman case, Stuart Brown QC expressly found that the property was left by the outgoing tenant in “appalling condition”, and so the learned judge was able to identify the costs for the extra redecoration work. Whereas in the present case, the Premises were in reasonable condition in the end of the tenancy. As it was not possible to repaint part of a wall by reason of the shading problem, and that the Defendant was expected to repaint the walls in any event to remove the “fair wear and tear” defects to the satisfaction of the new tenant, I cannot identify any extra redecoration works necessitated by the alleged breach of covenant on the part of the Plaintiff, which I do not find it be the case. Hence, the Defendant has suffered no real loss even if the Plaintiff was in breach of the covenants under the Agreement.
    Last edited by njstone9; 17-05-2021 at 10:18 AM. Reason: add in the right link
    Sith likes this.

  6. #36

    This is just my opinion. The aim is to get your money back asap without going to the tribunal because that takes ages and wastes time.

    This is what I would do if I were in your shoes and can't afford a lawyer.

    Print out 6-8 judgments so it is a thick bundle. Send it with your letter and in your letter add " As you can see from the case law judgements attached for your careful reading, you cannot withhold my deposit..." words to that effect.



    I am telling you, when someone receives a stack of court judgments (even if it is not a solicitors letter) they will shit themselves literally , especially if English is not their first language. He can try to read it and be overwhelmed, or think do I need to see a lawyer, but that means paying money, but if I don't see a lawyer, crap, I might miss something.

    Sending him 50 pages of judgements , will cost him a fortune to see a lawyer to seek legal advice. Does he want to pay to see a lawyer ? I wouldn't bother hlighting the important points for him because you don't want to paint yourself in a corner with the judge...just say here are some cases..(there are too many)


    The aim is to overwhelm him and bury him in the paperwork. And so what if he sends a lawyer's letter in response to you ? so what ? you don't have to reply using a lawyer. Just reply yourself...but always be on the side of reasonable.

    Also, send a copy by registered mail to the agent as well since the agent represented the landlord and accepted it, and ask him to pass it onto the landlord too.

    Always be polite, be reasonable in your letter, because you are creating a paper trail for your own benefit.
    Give a deadline to return the money and less reasonable costs for fixing. Say you are willing to discuss to solve the situation . Don't be rude.... I don't think you can force him to use your handman, but you can ask him to get quotes too...and then you guys can meet halfway.
    Now, got to go feed the kids...good luck.
    This is just my opinion (don't come after me if it doesn't work out)



    Now back to the real world and got to feed my kids.


  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sage:
    Or even better, the place is subsequently offered for rent without any repairs being made.

    Said friend (and their photos) would make an excellent witness statement for your small claims case.
    Well, well, well! I have found my old apartment up for lease again! The photos on the lease advert are low quality so I cannot really tell if anything has been done or not done in the living room, but they do show the floor hasn't been polished in the smaller bedroom, and the walls haven't been repainted in the master bedroom.

    So if any repairs have been made, they are minor ones.

    It would be rather interesting if someone I knew happened to visit this apartment, take some photos, and also ask the agent later by whatsapp to ask the landlord if they intended to do any more redecorating or if they intended to rent it out as it is. That kind of written evidence would be very handy indeed.
    Sage likes this.

  8. #38

    Yes, but then your friend will be called as a witness...

    better just to do it yourself...for your own evidence collecting. You don't even need to visit...just make sure you deal with the original agent.. ..


  9. #39

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    The original agent is being sued by the landlord (for being biased towards me - yes I know this is absolutely nuts) so I can't ask him as he isn't the agent anymore. I do have someone who has volunteered to do the task for me so it should be OK.

    I'm assuming if I try to do it myself I will get caught. Maybe I can try in a month if it hasn't been taken by then.


  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by njstone9:
    The original agent is being sued by the landlord (for being biased towards me - yes I know this is absolutely nuts) so I can't ask him as he isn't the agent anymore. I do have someone who has volunteered to do the task for me so it should be OK.

    I'm assuming if I try to do it myself I will get caught. Maybe I can try in a month if it hasn't been taken by then.
    Cool, glad you caught them out.

    I'd say 3 things:

    1) Make sure your friends take photos and close ups- The agent may well say "No photo's" and attempt to prevent your freind taking them.
    They may need to be thick skinned and bull headed

    2) Having someone else take the pics is much better than you doing it, but they should be aware that they may be called to be a witness at some point.

    3) It's not so likely to go as far as witnesses being called to court, you should be able to get a settlement...

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