Landlord withholding entire deposit

[GentleGeorge]

The question I was going to ask is: is it worth going to the police? I have reasonably good evidence the landlord has taken $34,000 from me on false pretences. He made up a quote, has refused to confirm he has even done any repairs (I messaged to ask) but previously claimed in Whatsapp messages he did do repairs at the start of May.

It sounds to me like fraud. Yes, the Small Claims Court will give me my deposit back, or nearly all of it presumably, but this looks to me more like criminal behaviour.

What do people think?

I'm not familiar with that side of the law here, but this definitely passes my sense-check for fraud, at least consulting the police cannot hurt.

Lots of other good advice about how to do it given here too.

[njstone9]

I just read your post again.

Don't believe what the agent says about the property.Why would the landlord sue the agent when he already ate up your entire deposit ?

Do you have whatsapp evidence from the property agent saying that the property has been sold ?Keep it.
Then go to do a property land search and do a property search . You can do this at govt offices. Pay by octopus. It is cheap. Ask the staff . It should say " first assignment" or something like that.


so you can show to the police the owner is lying to the agent as well...in your opinion.

Well I know it hasn't been rented cos the landlord was willing to arrange viewings on 3 occasions with my colleague! That agent who said it was rented already might just have been lazy and couldn't be bothered to show up.

[dinosaurs88]

rented out or not, sold or not...

Paint him in a corner.

Ask him to produce 1) the actual receipt (it is your money so it is your receipt
2) the contact details of the contractor and the "sifu" the master who did the work who you will call as a witness or get the court to call as a witness. (this should scare the crap out of him)

Don't tell him about management not logging anyone in to do the work.
You got to keep something back ......because he might give a whole load. of bullshit that the contractor came on x and x day...several days...OK several days no log in the book. why ?


And not usual for agents not to show up.....because they know it is you...did you send a foreign friend...then they suspect...if you send a chinese...then its a different story

[njstone9]

Update!

So I got a local friend to go around the flat and take photos.

It HAS now been totally refurbished. But! It must have been done very recently because the flat stank of chemicals - within a week or so.

My guess: the landlord has received the court summons and decided he now has to carry out the work because of that.

From the photos I can see a few things.

1. The walls and floor now look brand new and totally different than when I moved in. I have the photos to prove this.

2. It doesn't look to me like all the paint was removed from all the walls and then they were repainted. It looks more like someone went over the walls with a roller. I can see one or two areas where they have gone over bits where paint has come off and the colour is slightly off.

3. The scratched floor tile has not been replaced at all.

I've got my court case due in mid July but I'm open to any suggestions as to how I could get more evidence or strengthen my hand.

I'm going to go back to the management office of the building and ask again for the security records so I can find out what the contractor's details are. I can then ask my friend to contact the contractor and see if it is possible to find out what they actually charged the landlord.

If anyone has any ideas how exactly I could get this information, I'd be very happy to listen!

(I still don't have a receipt for the work from the landlord despite asking twice. He has not responded to me for a month now.)

For anyone who is reading this thread who wants to know what legal arguments I will use in court, well at this point in time I have several.

1. The rule against 'betterment' - ie you can't be asked to pay for things that improve the apartment.

2. There are several cases which state that a landlord would have to repaint the walls and repolish the floor after tenants have used an apartment

3. Even when a tenant is found to be liable to repair, they are only required to do touchups (I have a court judgement which says this) and obviously doing up the entire flat is not touchups.

4. Even if some of the defects in the apartment caused by me are beyond fair wear and tear, the fact that the landlord has such high standards means he would have had to (and did) pay for work to be done beyond this, and that means I am not liable to pay anything at all. (I have a landmark court case judgement I can quote on this one)

5. I also have evidence to show the repairs weren't done till around 6 weeks after I had moved out (suggesting they weren't urgent) and that the landlord himself didn't think they were necessary in order to be able to rent out the flat (he had photos online and let people view it for weeks before the refurbishment was done.) Also that now the asking rent has been increased from what I was paying (also shows the flat was improved, not just repaired).

[njstone9]

Another update!

This time I have found out that the landlord has indeed committed some kind of fraud.

After 5 months, I have finally persuaded her to provide me with a receipt and invoice. She has only agreed to do this because essentially she has no choice - she has to submit these to me and to the court by the end of November.

Looking at the invoice, I can see the company she has used to do the repairs is... <drum roll> ...

Her husband's company.

Yes. It is named after him. The contact phone number is his phone number that I have been Whatsapping.

So she has a receipt that essentially says she paid her husband.

Obviously I am happy to go to court with this, but the case won't be heard until next June! I haven't told her that I am aware of her despicable behaviour, not least because I'd quite like to expose it in front of a judge.

What are people's thoughts on this? It is fraud, right? To obtain a quote from your own family (very dodgy due to the conflict of interest) and then to pay them (surely it means she has suffered no financial loss?!)

[chuckster007]

So till now the scumbag LL still has not given you back any portion of your deposit???

[njstone9]

So my landlord took my entire deposit to pay for some minor repairs in my apartment back in April. I had a long thread about it here, but the website recommends I start a new thread today because that one is so old.

Basically there is some minor damage to one or two walls which can be easily fixed by painting over a few small areas where the paint has come off. There are some marks on the floors where furniture has rubbed away the finish on the (cheap) fake wooden finish on the tiles. I think this is fair wear and tear or at worst, they could be repaired by replacing some of the tiles.

The landlord has charged me over 2 months' rent (37,000) to repaint all the walls and the ceilings and polish all the floors in the apartment. None of these had been repainted or polished before I moved in, although the apartment is only 3 years old now.

I have taken the landlord to court as she refused to even communicate with me back in April and rejected all my offers to have my own repairman come and do the work.

She and her husband also refused to give me any kind of invoice or receipt... until last week.

We are at the court stage where evidence has to be submitted and she has to submit it to me and to the court by the end of November.

Finally I now have the "invoice" and "receipt" from her. I noticed, in total disbelief actually, that the name of the company she paid to do the work is... her husband's own company. It's named after him and the contact number is his phone number.

This is fraud, right? I mean, she has an invoice, from her husband, (conflict of interest surely?) and a receipt showing money was paid to his bank account. I also have proof she refused to allow any other company to do the work, including another firm who offered to do it for 10,000 cheaper (in any case I believe most of the "damage" is fair wear and tear, can could have been repaired for just a few thousand.

I haven't confronted her with the knowledge that I know who owns the repair company as I would quite like to take it to court and shame her there. What do people think? It is definitely dodgy to charge me for using their own company to do the work, right?

[shri]

Is the husband or his company registered as a contractor?

https://www.bd.gov.hk/en/resources/o...isclaimer.html

[greenmark]

Another update!

This time I have found out that the landlord has indeed committed some kind of fraud.

After 5 months, I have finally persuaded her to provide me with a receipt and invoice. She has only agreed to do this because essentially she has no choice - she has to submit these to me and to the court by the end of November.

Looking at the invoice, I can see the company she has used to do the repairs is... <drum roll> ...

Her husband's company.

Yes. It is named after him. The contact phone number is his phone number that I have been Whatsapping.

So she has a receipt that essentially says she paid her husband.

Obviously I am happy to go to court with this, but the case won't be heard until next June! I haven't told her that I am aware of her despicable behaviour, not least because I'd quite like to expose it in front of a judge.

What are people's thoughts on this? It is fraud, right? To obtain a quote from your own family (very dodgy due to the conflict of interest) and then to pay them (surely it means she has suffered no financial loss?!)

It might not be fraud. Maybe she had quotes from other companies, but finally decided to use her husband's company.

If you can ask if she did receive competitive quotes before carrying out any work.

[billyb]

"her husband's own company. It's named after him and the contact number is his phone number."

Have you done a company search?