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Negotiating Rent - General Guidelines?

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  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by ALAU:
    Of course most landlord would love a standing instruction, hassle free, you are right. I would too. But I did not list it in my previous list of suggestions to lower rate precisely because of this - a lot of banks charge a fee for cross-bank transfers, so the tenant may not like it.

    It is not a matter of setting up a standing instruction - the instruction could be for a transfer between 2 accounts in the same bank (usually free), or it could be cross banks, or even overseas.

    The charge occurs when you have a cross-bank transaction, even if local. This is called CHATS, or RTGS. Banks actually have a COST to use this system, although admittedly it is not large since they do it in bulk (I don't know exactly but I think it is something like a dollar or less).

    So, they charge you for it - take the cost they pay, plus whatever manpower cost allocation they have, plus a profit. It makes sense, sort of like at a restaurant, a fish may cost HKD30 from the market, but you add the delivery, the ingredients, overheads, staff costs, rental, laundry, etc., and you add a profit, and bingo, you have to pay HKD250 for the Grilled Dover Sole. Same thing with banks.

    But as to what banks charge for the transfer, it differs. You can eat a fish at a local Cha Charn Teng, or you eat a fish at a gourmet French restaurant, same thing, but as the consumer you can get to pick a bank. Some banks simply waive the charge, and take profit via other charges, maybe an account fee, who knows.

    HSBC is known to be expensive I know. SCB? Well let's just say that I have had interesting experiences with them (hidden costs whilst others are waived). Try one of the other smaller banks. Not as convenient, not so good internet banking maybe, but usually cheaper.

    However it is indeed strange not to charge for cheques - they don't charge for cheques in the UK either you know? But they do charge for local transfers too. But I read a couple of months ago that the UK plans to phase out cheques within 10 years.

    As for HK, it would take time. At least they now have electronic cheque clearing (in the past banks have to physically exchange the cheques at the end of each day), so it is one step. Cheques are popular as Loz said, people like something tangible in their hand rather than the promise that the money will be coming on a particular day. Also, writing a cheque which bounces is actually against the law, did you know that? But stopping a Standing Instruction isn't. So people feel better receiving a cheque.

    Also some landlords might not be comfortable letting the tenant know of their account details.
    Two points,

    I have never seen a UK bank charge for a local transfer - I have accounts with half a dozen - Lloyds-TSB, Barclays, smile, Nationwide (a building society), Halifax and some others - none of them charge.

    HSBC in Hong Kong do not charge me a fee for a monthly standing order to my landlords bank, which is Standard Chartered.

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff:
    HSBC in Hong Kong do not charge me a fee for a monthly standing order to my landlords bank, which is Standard Chartered.
    Which means that you are an HSBC Premier. Otherwise HSBC's tariffs clearly specify a charge of HK$70 "To set up, amend or suppress payment(s) upon each instruction"

    http://www.hsbc.com.hk/1/PA_1_3_S5/c...nk-tariffs.pdf
    Last edited by PDLM; 11-05-2010 at 07:48 PM.

  3. #33

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    Geez, I'm just glad to be back in Hong Kong, where I don't get slugged state / federal tax on both deposits & withdrawals, fees from both banks if I use an ATM other than one belonging to "my" bank, stamp duty payable on each cheque, and don't get me started on inter-bank transfers ... goodbye Australian banks, and don't expect me back any time soon ...


  4. #34

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    Here's what worked for me and I see that some folks like PDLM have made some of the suggestions:

    1. agreed to put in wardrobes but put it in the contract I will leave them when my tenancy is up. Win-win for both - I needed the wardrobes anyway and she feels she gets something at the end. for me I don't have to worry about disposing the wardrobes.

    2. paid her 3 months up front on top of the standard terms but she gave me one month rent free. I.e. I must have paid something like 5 months incl the rent deposit and then skipped paying the first month for the one month rent free.

    3. In return put in a clause in the contract that I can terminate in 14mnths but she cannot nor can she change the rent. So I took a punt that rents would go up but at least I am covered in that I can leave but she can't boot me out or increase my rent.

    4. She insisted that I show evidence of who I work for as she wanted to ensure that it was a reputable company.

    5. took the apartment 2 weeks earlier than I really needed it.


  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by PDLM:
    Which means that you are an HSBC Premier. Otherwise HSBC's tariffs clearly specify a charge of HK$70 "To set up, amend or suppress payment(s) upon each instruction"

    http://www.hsbc.com.hk/1/PA_1_3_S5/c...nk-tariffs.pdf
    I was talking about monthly charges. I seriously doubt that anyone renting a flat is going to complain about a one off fee of $70 compared with the monthly rent, stamp fee and possibly agents fees. That was the reason ALAU suggested that tenants might not like it:

    But I did not list it in my previous list of suggestions to lower rate precisely because of this - a lot of banks charge a fee for cross-bank transfers, so the tenant may not like it.

  6. #36

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    Katanga: That is great. 2) and 4) are particularly important. Congrats.

    Geoff: As I said, I would love a standing instruction as a landlord as there are no charges for me either way. But who knows who don't like a HKD70 charge? Someone (forgot who it was) complained about the charge earlier in the posts. I would too. To each his own.


  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by ALAU:
    Geoff: As I said, I would love a standing instruction as a landlord as there are no charges for me either way. But who knows who don't like a HKD70 charge? Someone (forgot who it was) complained about the charge earlier in the posts. I would too. To each his own.
    I don't think I would want to rent my property to someone who thought a one off $70 charge was a problem, to save both parties several hours of work over the duration of the contract. Anyone with an issue for this isn't the type of tenant I would rent any of my properties to!

  8. #38

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    I know this is unrelated to this topic, but I know many wealthy people who charge millions on their platinum credit card yet refuse to pay the card annual fee of HKD100 or so.


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