2Likes
Ok, so i i've been waiting for a week or so to receive my package details for my HK job offer. I was really excited, and I still am, but i'm a little worried about the package.
I'm a junior level person, I have 3 years of experience with my company and it's a transfer with my same company.
The package includes:
Moving costs - shipping furniture and clothes over (I will only bring clothes)
The flight over - any time I want to visit home, i'm on my own
A serviced apartment for 4-6 weeks
A starting yearly salary of 44k USD or 338,800 HKD (I'm not positive on this, but do i need to divide this by 12 or 13, i've seen where you get an extra month in HK... is that included in the base? If it's 12 then that puts me at about 28k HKD/month or 26k HKD if it's 13... Pre tax)
Here is where i'm a little frustrated. My new role is going to require more work/responsibility, so one would expect a raise of some sort.
I'm currently make a little over 38K USD, i'm not in my field for the money, we have amazing benefits and a LOT of vacation! But i'm wondering what some of you think regarding this package.
I want to counter offer and let my employer know these things:
I was looking at maybe a 10% increase for cost of living.
5% increase for the new work load/responsibility
10-15% increase for leaving home, help cover flights home, other difficulties of moving/living in a new place.
Those % increases would put me at about 50K USD, do you think this is reasonable... I think i would be willing to go with 48K USD, it puts a little extra money in my pocket to help reassure me that i'll be able to cover all bills.
I'm very confident that I could live just fine on 44kUSD, I'm sure this is a lot more than a local, but then again, i'm not a local and they want me there for a reason.
Any feedback, recommendations, or advice on living in the 44-50k range would be much appreciated.
I'm sure i've left out details that would be helpful, but i'm trying to get this off my mind and just let my head clear for a few days. I'll check back soon and provide any further info needed.
Thanks!
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17-10-2010, 05:04 AM #1
Package details - Junior Level American
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17-10-2010, 06:50 AM #2
I didn't know that being an "American" was a careerPackage details - Junior Level American
Perhaps if you let people know what industry you're in they will be able to help more...
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17-10-2010, 07:13 AM #3
you are getting a raise already so perhaps this is intended to cover the increased responsibility. depending on where you are from, the much lower taxation provides another hefty "raise", which more than offsets the cost of living (again, depends where you are from anyway whether there is a higher COL). they are already paying for moving costs so why should they pay again in the salary?
Negotiation is always fine, just be prepared with a bottom line for yourself as to where you will accept.
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17-10-2010, 07:41 AM #4
yes, my previous employer hired me to be an american. Although i was an Executive level American so I can't help too much for the OP. Each level of American has very different responsibilities and pay grades. My job did not last though, as I made a terrible American and was often applying for the Junior Level Communist position.
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18-10-2010, 12:31 AM #5
Sorry for the mishap, I should have said i'm a junior level marketing researcher and American.
The increase in salary is about a 15% increase. I was thinking this 15% would offset the cost of living over there. I'm probably over estimating the price, but if i'm making 28k HKD/month and spending 10k on an apartment, that just doesn't seem like a lot left over for other bills, and trying to maintain my current lifestyle.
If you know more regarding the tax situation please explain, i've been searching through here, but have yet to find information that really helped me. I know i need to be out of the US for 320 days and I believe i'll get taxed less. My understanding is that i'll pay the HK tax, that will apply toward the US taxes and then I pay the difference of what I should have paid. Something here has to be flawed, because I keep seeing where this is a benefit.
I was thinking about trying to counter my offer with the following:
15% increase for cost of living
5% increase for promotion
10-15% incentive for living abroad, helping with transition, being away from home
This would put me at about 50k USD, I'm not trying to rob my company blind, I personally would feel a lot more comfortable with just a little extra cash.
I currently live in Chicago, so i'm use to the pretty high cost of living in the US. Housing is the main issue, and i know that a lot of other costs will actually be cheaper.
Ah, I have one more issue, that maybe some of you could give me advice on. They want to try to get me out there in early December. They told me that there is a possibility that my visa could be denied due to my career status (being a junior level employee). Here is the kicker, they don't help out with me trying to find someone to rent my current room, they want me in December, but if i find someone to sublease my place and my visa gets denied... I suffer the loss.
I think that's another reason why I want to receive a little more money, it seems like i'm taking all the risk for no added benefit.
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18-10-2010, 07:52 AM #6
liked it better when you were junior level american.
Well...depending on your lifestyle, you could go far or struggle. This all depends on your lifestyle requirements, how often you go out, how expensive your tastes are, how much you need to mimic your foods from back home. Lots of western foods (good quality) get expensive in City Super and 360. But you can find lots of replacements that are cheaper alternatives in the standard grocers.
So its kind of difficult to say how much you will spend per month on foods and activities. I find I pay around same amount I did back home, or maybe a little less, per month on foods. Apartment is more expensive then back home, and everything else is about same.
HK tax seems to be at most 15%, but usually lower around 13% i think.
US has a foreign exclusion for USD $92K (or thereabouts). that means if your HK salary is under 92K per year, you pay $0 US taxes. If your salary were to increase over that amount, you can try to utulize other deductions and I've heard you can extend that cut-off to closer to $120K before needing to pay taxes in US.
i would agree, and i think its only fair you are comfortable before moving here. if you arent happy with the offer, then why make the move? if there is no other strong pushes for you, and its really just the career/financial opportunity, then ask for more based on your info provided...which sounds reasonable to me.
again...you have to analyze how much you want this job, and for what reasons. if you are taking all the risk and the company is not budging on anything or giving you any incentives, then why do it? fight back and stand your ground.
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18-10-2010, 09:36 AM #7
A chunk of your salary will be going into housing, approx. $12 - $15k. Again, this depends upon where you decide to live and if you are planning to get a roommate. This will leave you with about $9000 to $12000 (I assumed a salary of US$44k and subtracted 15% tax as HK tax is NOT automatically taken out from your monthly salary and you're responsible for it.). Budget about $600 to $1000 for utilities during the fall/winter periods, but it can increase to about $1000 to $1600 in late spring and summer as electricity alone in the summer periods with the AC going will be about HK$600 per month.
Now, you mentioned that you're a junior staff. I guess you're still in your 20s and you may still have student loans? Payments are about US$300 to $500? That will leave you with about US$500 to $800 - HK$3100 to $6,200 left. That is not a whole lot of money as the cost of living in HK can be higher than Chicago. Still it is doable. You will be eating a lot more meals from McDonalds, local fast food chains, and HK style canteens as it is probably cheaper to eat out than to cook for a single person.
I think it is fair for you to ask your company for an increase of about 10 to 15%, but ask them to increase the pay as part of accommodation. I am not sure about this, but I believe you'll get taxed on a lower tax bracket if money is recognized as part of accommodation. Second, also ask for moving expenses for your return to the States. Try to negotiate for a cash payment for this. Third, ask for meal allowance during your first 6 weeks here in HK. Lastly, if I were you, I would bring more than clothes for my shipping allowance. There are a lot of things that are difficult to replace in HK like books, linens, food, etc., Sure if you have money, these things can be easily purchased in HK, but if money is tight........
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18-10-2010, 10:06 AM #8
It should be pointed out that the US tax exemption is not immediate. You will need to be here basically for a full calendar year before you can take the exclusion, so there is a chance in the first year you could be on the hook for taxes in both places, with the subsequent deductions of course for foreign taxes, etc.
You could also push for a return ticket. If you end up leaving this job, they're going to be like "hey, tough, you are on your own now" eventhough they sent you over here.
Finally a question only you can answer: are you going to be jealous when you are out with other expats who are spending your monthly salary in a weekend at Macau? There is a bit of envy that can develop when they are all going to a very expensive club in SoHo and you're struggling just to pay the cover charge, let alone buy a beer (at the obscene rates they charge here). Right now you are probably comfortable within your own social group, but when you are here you may find yourself in a new social group of expats who are on a significantly higher salary and package, and that might be a bit annoying after awhile.
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18-10-2010, 10:10 AM #9
Thanks BenderBends.
Currently my lifestyle is a little different than I would want it to be. I go out to eat at least 8-10 times a week, then I visit the bars during the week and on the weekends. I wouldn't mind cutting down on how much I go out, but I want to keep the weekend social life. This is something I would really want to pick up on in Hong Kong, I'd love to go out with fellow Expats/Locals or whoever to just enjoy new things.
Since housing is a big issue, i spent several hours looking at apartments and I feel confident in finding something between the 5k - 8k range.
I think this is a great opportunity career wise, but my main goal is to experience the Asian culture, and to be in a place that would allow me to travel in that region. I thought about quitting my job, and just teaching English and traveling around for as long as I could support myself. So the job is just a huge benefit, but I'd like to be able to save, so that I can afford travel.
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18-10-2010, 10:20 AM #10
Originally Posted by Stoob:
