Areas to live in HK advice please?

[HowardCoombs]

Original Post Deleted

Oh, yes, I remember now. When shown to be wrong, move the goalposts

[anothercanuck]

another vote for DB, which ticks every box for the OP

[benenden00]

Hi, VBraddon28, I wrote you an A4 paper long reply and just lost it. So I am re-writing.

I lived in Kowloon station, and now I am living in Olympic. I have visited DB twice, and Tung Chung more than 10 times as my close friends live there. I also lived in London for three years, in the UK for 7-8 years in total.

In essence,

DB- more peaceful, more space/nature (trees + beach), a large expat community- mostly from western countries, hence a few international schools, airport access by bus or taxi

Kowloon- v. modern, convenient, a lot more local amenities, sufficient green (though it's artificially created), mixture of expats from western and asian countries- for westerners, you need to FIND them through a friend or PIPS where you might send your boy to, direct/convenient access to the airport (airport express, 20 mins, 90HKD = 7.3 quids), international school (PIPS)

HK is divided into HK Island and Kowloon. The airport express starts from HK Island (Hong Kong station) and stops only at two points (Kowloon station, Tsing Yi) on the way to the airport.

There is a tube, Tung Chung Line (orange colour on the tube map) and it starts from Hong Kong station and ends in Tung Chung station which is 5 min drive from the airport (fare- 30HKD, 2.4 quids).

The Line runs: HK station- Kowloon station- Olympic- Nam Cheong- Tsing Yi- Sunny Bay- Tung Chung

You can check travelling times at the below link:
http://www.mtr.com.hk/jplanner/flash...id=47&x=11&y=6

Many people recommended Kowloon station because it is on Tung Chung line and has direct access to the airport express. It is quite famous for being newly developed and an high-end residential area (here we call it West Kowloon), there are only 5 apartments there (The Arch, Harbourside, Cullinan, Sorrento, Waterfront) and 1 serviced apartment (Harbour View) plus two five star hotels, W & Ritz Carlton. It has a famous shopping mall named 'Elements', directly connecting the tube station and your residence. It has green + playground on the podium level- sufficient for kids (I have 10+ friends with babies aged 18-36 months, mostly aged 19 months, same as your boy). A lot of play groups or play dates, I hear about.

The Kowloon station area basically looks like this:
(1) Civic Square (where various restaurants are- mexican, italian, cantonese, pub, western, steakhouse, etc, etc) right in the centre
(2) Green area on the podium level, surrounding the civic square
(3) Apartments + hotels surrounding (1) & (2)
(4) Promenade right next to the sea, surrounding (3) (you can go for jogging along the sea)
(5) Elements shopping mall is underneath all these (again there are more restaurants, cafes, bakerys, Pret a manger, bookstore, ice link, cinema, food court, electronic goods stores, supermarket, designer shops, and so on) and connected to your residence, so you will never complain about the rain.

+ Kowloon station itself has medical clinics, McDonald's, 7-11 CVS, etc on the underground level.

+ There is PIPS (Parkview International Pre-School) right in the middle of the residential area (safe for kids) and other schools nearby. (Some of my friends travel to Harbour City for play schools- by taxi, 5 mins, costs 4 quids)

+ Each apartment has extensive, rather posh facilities on its own (kids play room, indoor/outdoor swimming pools, gym, basketball/badminton courts, table tennis room, piano room/karaoke, spas for facials, banquet room for kids' birthday parties or other occasions, barbeque pits, lounge/reading rooms, yoga studio, many classes + workshops run for the residents, oh yes, and a restaurant/tea room exclusively for the residents)

If necessary, you can enjoy easy access to Central (only one stop by tube, 4 mins, 1 quid) & Tsim Sa Tsui (mini bus- 30 pence, taxi- under 2 quids) where mega shopping malls, galleries, useful spots or attractions are. (new year's day fireworks, lovely night view of Victoria Harbour, HK view from the Peak, many events to be easily enjoyed)

Last but not least, Kowloon station allows you to check in at any time of your departure date- this gives your husband a lot of comfort (no need to carry luggage, early check in usually secures a better seat).

I personally think Kowloon station better fits your situation than DB, Olympic or Tung Chung.

#Olympic is as convenient as or more practical than Kowloon station in many ways, but for frequent flyers lincluding your husband, it can be time-consuming and less convenient. No direct access to the airport- travel to Kowloon station and then from there you travel to the airport.
(by taxi from Olympic, 180-200HKD vs. by airport express from Kowloon, 90HKD)

#Those who strongly recommended DB did it because DB is clearly more expat-oriented. You will see many westerners once you rest your foot onto that island. But personally to me, it feels more like a holiday resort or a weekend spot. Btw, I am not really cosmopolitan, but still I prefer staying closer to the city centre.

Remember DB is an island, so you have to take ferry with your baby every single time you need to travel to Central- not only time-wise (Kowloon 4 mins vs. DB min. 25 mins depending on the sea conditions), but in terms of costs (return ferry costs 7-8 quids vs 1 quid tube from Kowloon station), DB is worse than Kowloon. It rains very frequently in HK (worse weather than in London) and strong waves can get your baby sea-sick. When serious rainstorms come a couple of times during summer, you are isolated on the island. In case of an emergency, big hospitals are less accessible.

After arrival, you will need to get some furniture or electronic good/home appliances delivered to your home. Mind you- every seller/post office/shop charge you more for delivery to DB.
On the ferry to DB, I saw lots of DB residents carrying bags full of groceries, items from IKEA and so on. You have to do it with your 19 month old baby on a regular basis or when a need arises.

#Tung Chung- it's located in Lantau Island where the Airport is. By cab, 5-10 mins, costs 2-3 quids + baggage charges (40 pence per bag) = on average 4 quid

Its rent is a lot cheaper than in Kowloon station. (1100 sqf, 17-20k) It's where lots of aircrew live as it's close to the airport and in terms of your requirement, it's not the best choice.

In terms of rent per square feet, Kowloon station > DB >> Tung Chung

With your budget of 40k, you can happily find a home in Kowloon station.
Price of a 3 bed room flat sized 1100 sqf in Harbourside in Kowloon station ranges from 34k to 40k, depending on view and floor (Seaview and high floor are more expensive). Sorrento and Waterfronts are 10-30% cheaper than Harbourside- so you can get a bigger sized house there. The Arch is the most expensive- 720 sqf costs (two thirds of 1100) 30k and their approx. 1100 sqf flat costs minimum 40k to 44k. I would opt out of Cullinan as it is of a smaller scale and has less facilities.

DB- I guess you can live in a low-rise building and enjoy bigger space for the same money. But DB also has quite pricey developments such as Chianti.

I hope this helps you make an informed decision.

[Gruntfuttock]

DB isn't that isolated - you can get a bus to Tung Chung in 25 mins (DB and Tung Chung are both on Lantau Island, along with the airport), and Tung Chung now has a hospital.

[z754103]

The Arch is the most expensive- 720 sqf costs (two thirds of 1100) 30k and their approx. 1100 sqf flat costs minimum 40k to 44k. I would opt out of Cullinan as it is of a smaller scale and has less facilities. ....

Great analysis and explanation!

Just one update. The Cullinan is actually the newest and most expensive. It is also seen as having the best quality facilities and construction (the developer does some of the best regarded high end properties in HK). I did check out the place just for kicks once, and the flats did have by far the best quality finishing, bathrooms, kitchens, etc, among all the Kowloon Station apartments. (It was a little hard to walk away after seeing those :-))

However, you do get much less square footage for your money there, so you may wish to heed the OP's advice. Unless budget is not a problem, or you'd rather have less living space in exchange for more luxurious facilities.

[benenden00]

Great analysis and explanation!

Just one update. The Cullinan is actually the newest and most expensive. It is also seen as having the best quality facilities and construction (the developer does some of the best regarded high end properties in HK). I did check out the place just for kicks once, and the flats did have by far the best quality finishing, bathrooms, kitchens, etc, among all the Kowloon Station apartments. (It was a little hard to walk away after seeing those :-))

However, you do get much less square footage for your money there, so you may wish to heed the OP's advice. Unless budget is not a problem, or you'd rather have less living space in exchange for more luxurious facilities.

Hi z754103 :-) thanks for the update.
I checked with my husband who has friends in Cullinan (the only place I didn't have a chance to visit) and you are right- it's even more expensive than The Arch where I used to live :-) The Arch and Cullinan are built by the same developer, Sun Hung Kai, well known to be one of the best developers in HK.

What I meant by 'of a smaller scale' was that Cullinan is one single building (whereas the arch has 4 towers, harbourside 3 towers and so on) and hence has the least no. of units in Kowloon station area. It might have best quality facilities but not necessarily the biggest and the best facilities. I personally think the arch has better quality than harbourside, sorrento and waterfronts but for the OP with a baby, I would recommend harbourside more than the arch as the only drawback of the arch is that its kids play room is just too small.

Let me correct my own mistake- Ritz Carlton is actually in ICC building, not in Elements mall, but they are connected together, so I got confused a little. ICC is a major landmark in Kowloon- similar to IFC in Central.

I have a picture of ICC and part of Hotel W+ Harbourview building. Will post it after this as it is on my mobile phone )

[bibbju]

On Tuesday morning please start the clock as you leave your front door.

1.) You'll walk downstairs/take the lift and on out to walk to the bus stop.
15-20 minutes
2.) Get onto the ferry and off you go to Central
25 minutes
3.) You get off the ferry and walk to The Landmark, up to your desk
10-15 minutes

I don't think you're lying on purpose....but I don't believe you. Try timing yourself honestly on Tuesday morning....door to door, DB - Central cannot be done in under an hour unless you live on the pier at one end and work on the pier at the other....

Why do you always insist you're right even when you don't know the full facts and the person you say is wrong does?!

I live exactly 4 mins walk from the pier (obviously faster if I need to leg it!). I look out of my window and see the ferry coming in and that means time to leave. My journey door to door takes 40-45 mins (dependent on how many people are milling around aimlessly in Central).

[benenden00]

pic 1) ICC on the left and Harbour View + W on the right
pic 2) (left) W (right) Cullinan
pic 3) night view from the Kowloon station area
pic 4) Civic Square
pic 5) The Arch clubhouse- reading lounge
pic 6) The Arch gym- a great view!

I hope these pics give you a feel for the area. Good nite!

[vbraddon28]

Thank you so much for all your responses particularly those of you who have gone to the trouble of including a lot of detail. DB certainly has some appeal with regards to an expat community so we can hopefully meet lots of new people for play dates etc but I do worry about it being a bit 'stepford wives' as someone had mentioned. Kowloon Station was not somewhere we had looked into but certainly sounds like it has some great benefits for us.

A couple of questions - can you usually negotiate on rental price? In the UK it would be usual to put in a slightly lower offer? With some of the buildings you do seem to get some great facilities are these usually all included in the rental or are there additional fees for these facilities? Thanks once again.

[Mat]

Yes you need to negotiate the rent.

Facilities are usually not included (with exception...for example at my place the gym is free and usually the kidies thing to play are free) …but the fee is small for other stuffs like tennis...swimming pool..


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