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Moving in on salary 43K HKD per month with family of 3 .. is it worth ?

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  1. #31

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    Moving in on salary 43K HKD per month with family of 3 .. is it worth ?

    Quote Originally Posted by AmericaninKT:
    I wasn't implying that either and I know they're not mutually inclusive. But you wrote these words:
    "Live within your means, credit card debt is a fool's false paradise."
    Now if you are a single mother in America struggling to hold onto a job that probably doesn't pay what you are worth because the healthcare is decent and you've got kids and there is some home/health emergency -- or car repairs! -- that requires you to charge a big purchase do you honestly think paying that off is the priority of the working mom the next month? A working mom has to put food on the table, pay for the car to get to the job and get the kids to school, pay for childcare -- no live-in "slaves" like here in HK! -- and all that other stuff.
    I have been a single mother, of four children, the youngest of whom was 3 weeks old when my first husband left to go to another country because of some bullshit midlife crisis. I was left with a broken washing machine, a bit of furniture and clothes. I hand washed clothes until we had enough for repairs to the machine. The last thing I would do in that situation was take on debt. We simply did without, and there was a whole lot doing without in the first year. I know what it is to be poor, so please do not try and tell me how hard people have it in the US.

    Even now, when I can well afford to I don't have a helper, and we pay a very small rent in comparison to income. Because we choose to live like that to have money to use elsewhere that makes our lives secure.

    The simple point is that you advised credit card debt to people coming here on tight incomes. This is not advice, it is a recipe for financial stress.
    HK_Katherine and Fiona in HKG like this.

  2. #32

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    As someone who lived beyond their means in my younger years, got into financial problems and managed to drag myself out of it over a number of years, I have to strenuously agree with Kimwy on this. Taking on debt when you cannot afford to repay it will just compound and you'll just go further and further into debt, chasing to make payments, taking on new debt to pay off old debt etc....

    Credit cards are useful, especially in HK because there are many deals to be had or points to earn but the interest rates on the balances are massive, especially compared to the UK. You should never advise someone to take on CC debt if they are not able to pay it off within the interest free period.

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  3. #33

    And there's the proof

    Quote Originally Posted by HK_Katherine:
    It's not glib or cavalier. It's actually very simple, very obvious and very true. It's just that those people you mention in your post refuse to accept that. They still smoke, drink, use the car rather than walk or use the bus and spend money on many other things that are NOT ACTUALLY ESSENTIAL ... and then when an essential expense comes in (like, as you say, a medical emergency) then say they have no money. Budgeting is budgeting. You don't have to have much to budget with, but you do need to make tough choices. Using a credit card is not a tough choice, its a STUPID choice. And tends to make matters worse.

    Sure, I agree, plenty of people do this. Doesn't make it sensible. Doesn't make someone saying it's wrong wrong either. Just unpopular.
    And there's the proof you have never been to somewhere outside the big cities in America 'cause there are no buses. There is no public transportation. And even in large metro areas public transportation is not great or designed to serve the people it needs to serve.

    Anytime the word "stupid" comes out reason leaves the building. How dare you call people "stupid" w/o knowing the circumstances? How soon before you say that they should "pull themselves up by their bootstraps"?

  4. #34

    Find the quote

    Quote Originally Posted by kimwy66:
    I have been a single mother, of four children, the youngest of whom was 3 weeks old when my first husband left to go to another country because of some bullshit midlife crisis. I was left with a broken washing machine, a bit of furniture and clothes. I hand washed clothes until we had enough for repairs to the machine. The last thing I would do in that situation was take on debt. We simply did without, and there was a whole lot doing without in the first year. I know what it is to be poor, so please do not try and tell me how hard people have it in the US.

    Even now, when I can well afford to I don't have a helper, and we pay a very small rent in comparison to income. Because we choose to live like that to have money to use elsewhere that makes our lives secure.

    The simple point is that you advised credit card debt to people coming here on tight incomes. This is not advice, it is a recipe for financial stress.
    Go find where I advised people to take on debt. It happens. Saying it happens is hardly promoting it. Again, you know nothing of the economy in middle America.

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericaninKT:
    And there's the proof you have never been to somewhere outside the big cities in America 'cause there are no buses. There is no public transportation. And even in large metro areas public transportation is not great or designed to serve the people it needs to serve.

    Anytime the word "stupid" comes out reason leaves the building. How dare you call people "stupid" w/o knowing the circumstances? How soon before you say that they should "pull themselves up by their bootstraps"?
    Clearly the use of examples never made it into US schools.

  6. #36

    attack me

    Quote Originally Posted by HK_Katherine:
    Clearly the use of examples never made it into US schools.
    You are dodging the point. You said something to the effect that peoople drove when they could ride the bus. You knew what I meant in response.

  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericaninKT:
    You are dodging the point. You said something to the effect that peoople drove when they could ride the bus. You knew what I meant in response.
    No I have no idea. I was using a bunch of examples of what middle income people do while not thinking about budgeting. I could have said "drive a huge gas guzzling car instead of a small one" or "use the car instead of car pooling" or any number of a million other ideas. It all depends on who, what, where. But the point is the same, everyone except the poorest of the poor (who rarely qualify for credit cards) spends money less efficiently than they could. And thus debt is a choice not a inevitability.

    Sent from my SM-N900 using GeoClicks mobile app

  8. #38

    You're wrong again

    Quote Originally Posted by HK_Katherine:
    But the point is the same, everyone except the poorest of the poor (who rarely qualify for credit cards) spends money less efficiently than they could. And thus debt is a choice not a inevitability.

    Sent from my SM-N900 using GeoClicks mobile app
    Credit cards are -- or were -- notoriously easy to get in the USA. I am old enough to remember getting credit cards in the mail when I graduated college. All I had to do was activate them. I think that practice is not common anymore.

    The point is that credit is too easy to get -- we may agree on that -- but my point is that there are many, many factors which would push someone to use credit when they shouldn't.

    I think there are more of those factors in the USA given the lack of affordable public transportation outside major cities and the high cost of healthcare.

    But to use your logic of not buying anything that you can't afford to pay off immediately, let me ask this: you expect people to pay cash up-front for cars and houses and college educations then?

    As my posts on here have shown, I am hardly one to dispense financial advice. That said, I'm a bit offended by those who throw out advice so easily...especially those who have limited knowledge outside the bubbles they've grown up in both here and back home.

    And speaking of wasted money: we're all probably wildly overpaying rents here without a chance to own a home which gets to the original point of the OP.

  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by AmericaninKT:
    But to use your logic of not buying anything that you can't afford to pay off immediately, let me ask this: you expect people to pay cash up-front for cars and houses and college educations then?
    For vast majority of the world (USA, UK, Canada, Australia and a few others excepted), this is reality. If you cant buy it outright, you dont buy it at all. You rent, you buy old cars and you work for scholarships.

    Personally, aside from a few carefully leveraged investments with low interest rates, I have never purchased anything on credit. I've owned cars, a boat, house and have paid kids tuition and will do so for a few years yet - with no finance. I buy what I can afford and let things that I cannot afford slide on bye...

    Carefully controlled debt can be very good. Credit card debt, car debt, un-necessary debt especially for discretionary spending is just plain stupid.
    HK_Katherine and emx like this.

  10. #40

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    Dear OP,
    We hope you found the information in the start of the thread useful. Now if you don't mind, we'd like to debate credit card debt for a bit. That's cool, right?

    Sent from my GT-I9190 using GeoClicks mobile app


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