85k a mth for family of 4

[Just8in]

I'm in a very similar situation as you, also a family of 4 moving from SG to HK on that level of salary. My 2 kids are slightly younger than yours.

Have you looked at the Singapore International School? The fees are expensive compared to what you will pay in SG, but from what I read the quality of education seems quite good and the school is highly sought after in HK. Singaporeans have priority for entry and the bus routes seem extensive.

I think 85k is doable if you dont mind living in a smaller space or longer commutes. Savings definitely will be much can less than what you probably have in SG, especially if you are not currently renting.

I'm going for career prospects myself, and look at the reduced savings as paying for an overseas work experience. Ultimately if the financial situation doesn't improve, I have the option to return to SG in 2-3 years and start at the higher base that I was getting in HK. So in the end you'll make it back

Thanks Pandarin! Yes I have looked at SIS, maybe I assumed wrongly but don't we need a debenture even if Singaporean? Would you be putting ur kids to pre school there too?

Also sorry for the questions, but would your spouse be also stopping work and trying to find work there in HK? As for the option when you come back, does that take into account she may have to find work again too?

Thanks and I am really happy to find someone going through the same situation as me so I can understand your thought process as well!

[penguins]

From a cost perspective, does this seem reasonable? It doesn't really look like there will be much left.

Gathered this from other posts and made some modifications:

30K Rent (3bdr around Taikoo)
15K Education (2 preschoolers)
5K Groceries
3K Transport
5K Health/Clothes/Entertainment
4K Weekend Trips (1-2 times whole family)
1K Internet / Phone / TV
2K Utilities
5k Helper
2k MPF
10k tax

3k contingency/savings

Total 85k

Education - it will be higher once they get into primary school level (in about a year's time for your eldest). For ESF school, it's about 6k+ to 9k+ per months (for 10 months a year). And you have to fork out an "entry fee" of about 50k per kid if they get a place. Figures are higher more private international schools (e.g. SIS). Also, you need to consider the school bus fees, etc., which can add another 1k to 2k per month. If you are fine with local schools, the figures are significantly lower. But language etc could be a problem. Basically, when you are comparing with the price you pay in SG (approx. HK$40 per month) and the quality you get, things in HK don't look too good in general.

Tax - based on your pay level and family circumstances, about 7k should be more realistic.

MPF - no contributions are needed in the first 12 or 13 months when you first move here. After that, it's HKD1,500 max per month.

Helper - good-to-have, but not necessary. We fired ours (or maybe she fired us) after a few months, and we are much happier. Yes, me (and sometimes my kids) have to chip in for the housework, but it is not that bad. If you want to get a helper, you need to consider the costs for food and boarding, insurance, and air ticket home after 2 years. So the real figure is going to be higher than 5k.

Groceries - 5k is doable, but 6k is more realistic.

Transportation - we (family of 4) spend roughly 1k per month (MTR + mini buses + very few taxis). It is very tempting to get a BMW in HK, especially when you compare with the prices in SG. But the public transportation system is quite alright.

Personally, I think SG is a more family friendly place to bring up kids. Nevertheless, there are some fun things in HK that SG lacks (e.g. many places of nature for hiking and outdoor activities). There are also some benefits to move over -- expose for your children to slightly different culture and systems; some sort of family adventure that can help to bring you closer to one another. These can't really be quantified.

[Hurtmesome]

Sorry I didn't read all the posts, so if I repeat or missed something, plz forgive me.

to OP, I will have to agree with theBrit. If the main motivation at this point is money. I'd say, stay in Singapore.
Ur wife's health is far more important and the schooling issue for your kids will make ur hair turn white.
But if it's more then just the money, if this is a way to fast track ur career, so u can make MD faster here then u would staying in SG, or ur dying a slow death at ur current job... It's tough choice. Talk it over with the mrs. and work on a plan B.
Plan B might be like, if it doesn't work out...your family goes back within 12 months, and u start communting after that as mentioned by others until u can find an even better job in SG.
Good luck

[Pandarin]

Thanks Pandarin! Yes I have looked at SIS, maybe I assumed wrongly but don't we need a debenture even if Singaporean? Would you be putting ur kids to pre school there too?

Also sorry for the questions, but would your spouse be also stopping work and trying to find work there in HK? As for the option when you come back, does that take into account she may have to find work again too?

Thanks and I am really happy to find someone going through the same situation as me so I can understand your thought process as well!

Yes you'll need a debenture but if I'm not wrong it's something you will get back when your child stops schooling there. For long term education I think it'll be a good investment. I am considering to register my son but he's still too young to enter. Minimum age is 4.

I'm probably in a slightly better situation in that my husband is a freelance designer so he can work from home anywhere, but indeed he will have less time to work given that the kids will be around more often. Currently they are both in full day childcare in SG. Plus we got to spend more on rental because of the additional space we need for his home office.

Yes, it's really good to find someone in a very similar situation! When will you be moving if you take up the job offer?

[bookblogger]

Well they could live in DB....no crowd...beaches...mountains etc etc...

Yes, and it is only 15 minutes to the office in Central, door to door.

[Mat]

Don't let the bullies stop you posting. It doesn't matter if you have left HK, you have just as much right to post here as the Pollyana crew who spin everything maximum positive.

For the record i PM bibbju and told her that she should post what she wanted to post.

You should reallly grow up.

[Just8in]

Yes you'll need a debenture but if I'm not wrong it's something you will get back when your child stops schooling there. For long term education I think it'll be a good investment. I am considering to register my son but he's still too young to enter. Minimum age is 4.

I'm probably in a slightly better situation in that my husband is a freelance designer so he can work from home anywhere, but indeed he will have less time to work given that the kids will be around more often. Currently they are both in full day childcare in SG. Plus we got to spend more on rental because of the additional space we need for his home office.

Yes, it's really good to find someone in a very similar situation! When will you be moving if you take up the job offer?

It should be Sept or Oct earliest I think. For me now, the priority is to figure if the pollution is really that bad because if it is, there really isn't much more to consider. If the situation is somewhat exaggerated or can be managed, then it's about finding school places for the 2 boys. Lastly it would be the money, I am beginning to think that the right expectations is actually to not expect any savings or even eating into my savings for at least 2 years. Not a great situation but that may be the price to pay for that promotion and funnily enough, the least of my 3 concerns now (health, education, money - in that order). So when are you going and where you planning to put up?

Hurtmesome, I think at the end of the day, the plan is to retire earlier or get to the financial independence stage earlier. To me, title and position is not that important and you are right, isn't it just about making sure the family is happy and healthy? Making MD doesn't mean much when everyone is unhappy at home or worse , sick all the time.

All, thank you for your inputs and candid sharing so far. It has really helped!

[Pandarin]

It should be Sept or Oct earliest I think. For me now, the priority is to figure if the pollution is really that bad because if it is, there really isn't much more to consider. If the situation is somewhat exaggerated or can be managed, then it's about finding school places for the 2 boys. Lastly it would be the money, I am beginning to think that the right expectations is actually to not expect any savings or even eating into my savings for at least 2 years. Not a great situation but that may be the price to pay for that promotion and funnily enough, the least of my 3 concerns now (health, education, money - in that order). So when are you going and where you planning to put up?

I'm sure air quality is worse compared to SG, but there are also plenty of kids who grow up healthy in HK so honestly I'm not too worried about it. Some friends who have lived in HK before also tell me it's not that bad.

I'll likely move towards end Aug and starting work mid-Sep. The Hung Hom and Olympic areas seem quite promising in terms of schools and rental budget. Olympic seems more expensive so will have to settle for smaller space...

I've been emailing some international preschools around these areas and most seem to be full. Hopefully when we are physically there we will find one or the other international or local school that still has some places left. Otherwise the alternative is to attend some enrichment classes and tide us over until some places open up. My boys are 2.5 and 1.5, so I guess while school is important, it's not top top priority at their age.

[meeper]

Hey Just8bin,

We've shifted here recently and here's what I think you could be looking at (or consider) across the areas you outlined:

30K Rent (3bdr around Taikoo) - closer to HKD35K
15K Education (2 preschoolers) - 15K to 20K at SIS (there is a small subsidy for SGers)
5K Groceries - possible but no luxuries/extravagance
3K Transport - possible even with occasional taxi rides (esp when for four)
5K Health/Clothes/Entertainment - possible, but I would recommend that you try negotiating for full health insurance for your family
4K Weekend Trips (1-2 times whole family) - could be less, but then again, could be more if for overseas trips
1K Internet / Phone / TV - possible
2K Utilities - could be less
5k Helper - may not be necessary if your wife is not working (and you'd be surprised at how small your flat is anyway)
2k MPF - I think this is capped at 1.5K
10k tax - with the rental concessions, it should be a lot less than 10K

also, I think you need to make a decision without assuming that your wife will be able to find a job here...

oh and as for school, I think SIS is not any better than any of the better government schools in SG

[gunsnroses]

@TheBrit since when I've become a bully, please enlighten me? You don't need to defend bibbju, I'm sure she's completely capable of doing it on her own.