Question about Health Insurance in Hong Kong

[TheBrit]

So the business should just pay their medical bills on the same basis. Why are you determined to reduce your business's profit?

Presumably you think there is no administrative cost with this? And that setting up claims procedures and internal systems is a good use of management time... and that a small company will be able to negotiate good volume discounts with healthcare providers... and that staff would be comfortable disclosing all the medical treatments to their employers.. and comfortable with the employer approving/rejecting those.

Meanwhile, back in the real world....

[MovingIn07]

So the business should just pay their medical bills on the same basis. Why are you determined to reduce your business's profit?

My two other shareholders are American. You cannot argue logic with Americans on the subject health insurance, so I have determined that it's better not to even try. Plus I don't think the staff really want us knowing all about their latest treatments for STD or whatever!

[MovingIn07]

We got this from one of the brokers we work with:

Hi Movingin07

From your post it sounds like you’re looking for an Outpatient Only policy. Is that assumption correct?

Unfortunately, a standalone Outpatient policy is not available from any of the local or international health insurance providers operating in Hong Kong; you’re always going to have to purchase in-patient coverage in order to access outpatient protection.

It also sounds like you’ve got a local health insurance policy through Blue Cross, which has a number of drawbacks (especially when compared against an international health insurance option). As you’ve discovered, 2 of the primary drawbacks are A) Sublimits, and B) Restrictive care networks.

Local health insurance companies like Blue Cross and Bupa Hong Kong often place a number of sublimits on various coverage benefits, and will tend to offer full protection only when you’re receiving care with a preferred healthcare provider. The problem with this is that your family doctor (or dentist, in this case) may not be with the insurer’s network, and in the event of a serious investigation into a health problem the sublimits will mean that you’re always going to have to handle a portion of the final bill out of pocket whether you want to or not.

Your only real option is to look at an international provider (like Allianz Worldwide Care, Bupa International, or Cigna Global Health) which tend to cover more of the “everyday” healthcare you’ll require; but the big drawback to products from these companies is that they will normally be much more expensive than the options from one of the local companies. Although, in return for a higher premium you’re going to be receiving higher coverage limits and better claims handling (with far more expansive direct settlement options).

But as stated, no matter whether you go for an international insurance option, or a local one, you’re still going to need inpatient protection before you receive any outpatient or dental coverage. However, many companies (Allianz Worldwide Care, for example) offer modular coverage options so you can have a choice in what protection you’re going to be receiving under the policy – giving you a sort of “pick and mix” ability where you are able to choose what coverage you would like to see (which will help you cut down on the costs).

Going into all of the differences between local and international health insurance options will require a much more extensive answer, but you can get more information about your choices on these two different health insurance variants at http://hk.ccw-global.com/health-insu...ional-options/.

THAT has to be the most sensible answer to this question I have heard from anyone in Hong Kong. (Our broker was incapable of stringing a sentence together in English, let alone concisely explaining the problem and the options). That's exactly the issue I am talking about. Thanks.

When we were owned by a large US consultancy, we had Cigna, but when we looked into how much that would cost to continue, the prices were just not worth the value (cost was something like 5x the price). I had hoped that a local would fit in the middle, since there is a LOT of space in the middle, but it's sounding like not from that response!

[Gruntfuttock]

Presumably you think there is no administrative cost with this? And that setting up claims procedures and internal systems is a good use of management time... and that a small company will be able to negotiate good volume discounts with healthcare providers... and that staff would be comfortable disclosing all the medical treatments to their employers.. and comfortable with the employer approving/rejecting those.

Meanwhile, back in the real world....

The company must already have an expenses claim system. Since the policy requested needs to cover all providers not just an approved list the discount issue doesn't really apply. I don't see how an employee making false/exagerrated expenses claims for medical expenses is much different from any type of reimbursable expense.

Min07's point about working with Americans seems more valid to me.

[TheBrit]

The company must already have an expenses claim system. Since the policy requested needs to cover all providers not just an approved list the discount issue doesn't really apply. I don't see how an employee making false/exagerrated expenses claims for medical expenses is much different from any type of reimbursable expense.

Medical insurance generally has some co-payment system, which is unlikely to be a feature in most corporate expenses.. plus you need a defined list of what is and isn't covered - enjoy having your management draw that up (based on their medical training?)...

Even if insurance covers all providers, most insurers will have a preferred provider which is discounted, lowering the overall cost. So you can see the in-network GPs and dentists for a lower cost... while not precluding the option to go out of network for higher fee.

I would also think most employees prefer not to tell their managers what medical treatment they are receiving and have those approved/rejected by their managers.

[big_panda]

I recently purchased a comprehensive all claims medical policy for my wife. It even covers the unlimited expenses of child birth and would allow a stay in a private suite of Matilda. It gives us the freedom to visit any doctor/specialist HK/worldwide (excluding US, except in an emergency) knowing the claims will be reimbursed. Premium on balance is acceptable around HK$45k p.a.

[Editor]

THAT has to be the most sensible answer to this question I have heard from anyone in Hong Kong. (Our broker was incapable of stringing a sentence together in English, let alone concisely explaining the problem and the options). That's exactly the issue I am talking about. Thanks.

When we were owned by a large US consultancy, we had Cigna, but when we looked into how much that would cost to continue, the prices were just not worth the value (cost was something like 5x the price). I had hoped that a local would fit in the middle, since there is a LOT of space in the middle, but it's sounding like not from that response!

Following up on your post: http://hk.ccw-global.com/

Local and international plans are really at either end of the spectrum, it’s a trade off of high coverage/high premium or low coverage/low premium. There are some developments regarding the creation of “hybridized” products which are starting to merge aspects of both the local and international plans, but these haven’t really penetrated the market yet.

As the HK insurance industry continues to develop you can expect more options for “middle of the road” type products. These would include minor changes like the removal of maternity coverage from corporate policies, or fairly limited outpatient coverage with full inpatient protection on a no-deductible basis; but again, these options are really only just beginning to be developed and haven’t seen much traction in the market yet.

If you’re looking to obtain a policy in the middle of the spectrum right now it comes back to choosing a provider which is able to provide a modular offering. Returning to the Allianz Worldwide Care example you would be able to contain your costs by purchasing a policy with inpatient “catastrophe” coverage (a very, very, very high inpatient deductible) while selecting an outpatient module with no deductible. The inpatient premium would be lowered through the implementation of a high premium (US$1,000 +) while you would receive outpatient protection without having to pay any of the costs out of pocket.

Unfortunately with Allianz you can either have an outpatient deductible or an inpatient deductible, but you can’t have both; which may influence your decision. But if you contact them for a quote you could be pleasantly surprised at the premiums you’re looking at (especially if you’re covering a group).

[MovingIn07]

I recently purchased a comprehensive all claims medical policy for my wife. It even covers the unlimited expenses of child birth and would allow a stay in a private suite of Matilda. It gives us the freedom to visit any doctor/specialist HK/worldwide (excluding US, except in an emergency) knowing the claims will be reimbursed. Premium on balance is acceptable around HK$45k p.a.

That's about what Cigna quoted us. What we are paying now is 13k pa so the gap is rather large. I had been hoping to find something in perhaps the 20k range that was better but not super-duper. Seems impossible in HK.

[MovingIn07]

Following up on your post: http://hk.ccw-global.com/

Local and international plans are really at either end of the spectrum, it’s a trade off of high coverage/high premium or low coverage/low premium. There are some developments regarding the creation of “hybridized” products which are starting to merge aspects of both the local and international plans, but these haven’t really penetrated the market yet.

As the HK insurance industry continues to develop you can expect more options for “middle of the road” type products. These would include minor changes like the removal of maternity coverage from corporate policies, or fairly limited outpatient coverage with full inpatient protection on a no-deductible basis; but again, these options are really only just beginning to be developed and haven’t seen much traction in the market yet.

If you’re looking to obtain a policy in the middle of the spectrum right now it comes back to choosing a provider which is able to provide a modular offering. Returning to the Allianz Worldwide Care example you would be able to contain your costs by purchasing a policy with inpatient “catastrophe” coverage (a very, very, very high inpatient deductible) while selecting an outpatient module with no deductible. The inpatient premium would be lowered through the implementation of a high premium (US$1,000 +) while you would receive outpatient protection without having to pay any of the costs out of pocket.

Unfortunately with Allianz you can either have an outpatient deductible or an inpatient deductible, but you can’t have both; which may influence your decision. But if you contact them for a quote you could be pleasantly surprised at the premiums you’re looking at (especially if you’re covering a group).

Interesting. Thanks. I can't "like" it for some reason.

[Gruntfuttock]

Premium on balance is acceptable around HK$45k p.a.

I'm really curious here. I haven't spent HK$45K on medical services in total in my entire 50 year life. Is it really normal for people to spend more than $45K per year on medical services?