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Do I have a shot at Hong Kong Law schools?

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  1. #21

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    Fantastic prevarication there gilleshk, one of your best efforts at not answering a direct question. I said nothing about the OP's English skills, I simply asked what language the laws are written in.


  2. #22

    Ahhhh, though ironic it seems, some professors in HKU are not proficient at english; others even can't speak fluently or just pick up a few words...You will be shocked to hear the senior officials' dialogue in english when being asked by journalists of the ATV, Pearl media, including our Chief executive

    Phew, I do admit my english has much space to improve
    Plz correct it if you folks find terrible grammar mistakes and poor expression in my posts
    thanks a lot

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  3. #23

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    Even more ironic that many of those that complain about the level of English couldn't read or write a Chinese character and can barely get a thank you out when speaking.
    Posted via Mobile Device


  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by gilleshk:
    Even more ironic that many of those that complain about the level of English couldn't read or write a Chinese character and can barely get a thank you out when speaking.
    Posted via Mobile Device
    That is something I think about pretty much every day. It is a huge challenge for those who want to work for a top firm that works internationally as English standards for them have to be very high given their client base. It is something that a person like savoybean will have to work hard at and one sign of his willingness to learn is his posting on a site like this. This can help develop English skills.

    Not sure the OP has his law path figured out yet, but the idea of a certificate program to start where he gets top marks is something he might also look into. The world is full of grads who failed to begin with the end result in mind. The law firm we deal is teeming with expats but they are educated in the UK primarily and know HK law and have offices in China to handle that end of it. This is a firm that has told me to grow they need to take in work from high cost places. I heard that when the lawyer returned from a trip that he said was part work, part vacation. I was surprised.

    Finding the lay of the market is essential as a first step and key part of OP's plan.
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  5. #25

    Sorry for a stuped question...
    What is the meaning of 'OP' ?


  6. #26

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    OP = original poster - the person who started the thread.

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  7. #27

    Ah, Gilles, Gilles....

    It's always a delight getting called a "colonial pedant" AND condemned as someone who "couldn't read or write a Chinese character" on a gloomy Tuesday morning. If you're interested, I will have you know that I read, speak and write fluent Chinese - not that it has any bearing on the point that I was making. Whilst it is true that the Chinese language is used more frequently in court these days, lawyers do not in general get to CHOOSE to run all their cases or build their practice purely in Chinese. Further, all the big cases are still conducted in English (regardless of which area you are in), so in order to be truly "successful", one really needs to have good English skills - yes, STILL. You can of course argue that success is not measured in terms of fees, and that your lawyer friends whose English isn't all that good are really very successful because of the fulfilment that they get from working on duty lawyer cases down the magistracies or from running small claims in Chinese, but I shall leave you to develop that argument if you so wish. (And before you decide that I am a money-grabbing-local-hating-corporate-lawyer-whore, please note that I have done my share of free legal advice and legal aid cases - both in Chinese and in English)

    As for your declaration that "English here isn't so much a requirement as a courtesy nowadays" - well, you're wrong, as far as the law and lawyers are concerned.

    Quote Originally Posted by gilleshk:
    Considering that HK is not really an English speaking country though it has kept it as an official language and that a significant amount of cases will certainly not be conducted in English, I think that the poster can be very successful with that level of English. That is certainly the case with one of my good friend who is a local barrister and another who is a tax specialist.

    No offence as one says but this post demonstrates a pretty pedantic colonial attitude in my opinion...
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  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScotchDrinker:
    Ah, Gilles, Gilles....

    It's always a delight getting called a "colonial pedant" AND condemned as someone who "couldn't read or write a Chinese character" on a gloomy Tuesday morning. If you're interested, I will have you know that I read, speak and write fluent Chinese - not that it has any bearing on the point that I was making. Whilst it is true that the Chinese language is used more frequently in court these days, lawyers do not in general get to CHOOSE to run all their cases or build their practice purely in Chinese. Further, all the big cases are still conducted in English (regardless of which area you are in), so in order to be truly "successful", one really needs to have good English skills - yes, STILL. You can of course argue that success is not measured in terms of fees, and that your lawyer friends whose English isn't all that good are really very successful because of the fulfilment that they get from working on duty lawyer cases down the magistracies or from running small claims in Chinese, but I shall leave you to develop that argument if you so wish. (And before you decide that I am a money-grabbing-local-hating-corporate-lawyer-whore, please note that I have done my share of free legal advice and legal aid cases - both in Chinese and in English)

    As for your declaration that "English here isn't so much a requirement as a courtesy nowadays" - well, you're wrong, as far as the law and lawyers are concerned.
    The comment about language was of a more general nature about many expats working in HK and whining about the level of English when they themselves are ignorant of chinese. If that indeed isn't the case for you then bravo, you're only a pedantic layer whose only contribution to the thread was to demean a first year law student for his language skills. A very impressive contribution indeed...

    The same goes for the use of English in HK, it wasn't meant to be specific but more general. I won't argue that English isn't necessary in the practice of law for the time being but it's rapidly diminishing in many areas as it should since this is now a Chinese territory.
    Last edited by gilleshk; 31-08-2010 at 03:11 PM.
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  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by glazyan:
    My weakness: My GPA for college ended up being a 2.8 because I really wasn't serious about life yet in my first 2.5 years. However, I am now a completely different person and anyone who meets me can clearly see that.

    I really want to study Law at HKU. CUHK is my secondary choice. Does anyone here have any insight on what my chances are for these 2 schools?

    Thanks!
    I know that it is easier to get on to the CPE law conversion course at HKU Space (this is a part time course at the HKU department of continuous learning). This is predominantly for practising law in HK and the UK though so not sure how transferable it would be to China. I was told the average student that gets a place has a UK university grading 2:2, which I believe would be close to your GPA grade from what I have read about the GPA.

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by glazyan:
    For me, I think studying to be a local Hong Kong lawyer isn't the worst idea. There is plenty of opportunity for an American who knows Hong Kong law and Chinese here. I have heard that corporate lawyers are in very high demand and I would be an exceptional candidate for them.


    To sum up, I think the opportunities present in Guangdong province of China right now might make having a Law degree for the area actually worth it. Also, I am not competitive enough for US law schools so it might be the best route I have. And it's cheap. Why not?
    Glayzan, you're a little confused here.

    Hong Kong - common law system, based heavily on English common law. Used in Hong Kong only, taught in HK law schools.

    Guangdong Province - PRC law, which bears no relation whatsoever to Hong Kong law or indeed any other common law system. For example, there is no such thing as precedent in PRC law; common law is based entirely on precedent.

    NB US law is a form of common law.

    Therefore, if you want a law degree for Guangdong province you're going to have to go to school in the PRC. A Hong Kong qualification will be no more use to you there than a Hungarian one.

    Sometimes, for commerical reasons, PRC companies dealing with non-PRC investors may decide to do a deal governed by Hong Kong, English or US law. This is where lawyers qualified in those jurisdictions are able to work with, or even in, the PRC (eg my firm has an office in Shanghai where our lawyers practise English law only).

    If you want to go down that route, bear in mind that a law degree will not give you a licence to practise - for that you will need to do a one year course in legal practice followed by two years working as a trainee solicitor in a law firm. Trainee jobs are pretty hard to come by in Hong Kong. I'm afraid to say that you wouldn't really be such an exceptional candidate as you think- I have tens of ABC, BBC and CBC colleagues who are native bilingual English and Cantonese, speak fluent Mandarin and read and write Chinese. It's not exceptional here, it's the norm.

    Why force yourself into an academic structure towards a job which probably won't fit your aspirations in the end anyway ? Get out there in Shenzhen, use your brain, local knowledge and Chinese in business (don't businesses these days pay Westerners just to pretend they are in charge or something?) and you'll be the one employing the lawyers and laughing as you take home three times what they do on a big deal.