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Should ESF use means testing

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  1. #1

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    Should ESF use means testing

    ESF is a government subsidised body that charges a flat fee for all its customers. As the resources for English language only education is limited should the ESF apply means testing so places goes to those who can't afford other options? Then those that can afford private schools can pay more.

    Or should a voucher system be introduced so any parent can choose any school and pay top-up fees if needed.


  2. #2

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    Interesting question. First it's far from being fully subsidized, it was slashed before and maybe again therefore the government can't nor shouldn't dictate admission policy. Second, there are government schools with English as the language of instructions so there are other cheaper options around.

    It was established to care for the children of the colonial power which isn't really all that relevant anymore. Personally, I don't believe that they should receive any subsidy at all and should compete on a fair footing with the rest of private institutions in HK.

    Expats coming to HK should do like in most other countries, put their children in local schools or foot the bill(or let their company do it for them)

    Also worth noting, government civil servants can get an allowance towards sending their kids to ESF...


  3. #3

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    >> or foot the bill(or let their company do it for them)

    giles - what are your thoughts on a voucher system?

    I've brought this up on geoschools.com, but there are certain provisions made to educate all children in HK for 9 years for free. We can now see the medical system move towards vouchers (although at a very slow pace). So, isnt it time for the govt to consider giving out vouchers so that parents can then make a choice and put their kids where ever they want, and pay the excess?

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  4. #4

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    The CEO of ESF, Heather Du Quesnay, will be at Discovery College tonight (Thursay 16th at 7pm) to discuss with parents why ESF want to impose an extra HK$10,000 fee per year per child on top of an above inflation rise in school fees.


  5. #5

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    I think that's an interesting concept. Governments usually allocate a certain amount of money per child so why not give that amount or a portion of it away to each family and let them make a decision?

    This is heavily debated in many countries. Many feel that it's a bit socially irresponsible to do that since it takes money away from the public school system, which is the responsibility of the government, to subsidize parents who are often already better off than most people.

    However in many countries the wealthier are already asked to shoulder a much bigger burden than the poor the way the taxation system is set up. However that isn't really the case in HK where the taxation rate is fairly flat.

    I do believe that from an individual's perspective, it's better for the parents however I'm not sure that it's a better thing to do as a society to promote more divisions between the haves and the have nots. My selfish self would prefer the vouchers, my social one leans the other way... I'd have to really think if I had to vote on this...


  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by gilleshk:
    I think that's an interesting concept... to promote more divisions between the haves and the have nots.
    There must be ways to ensure 'able but poor' kids can get into good schools (the whole point of the voucher scheme is the creation of good schools through market forces - bad schools close). Perhaps if the voucher scheme had a sliding scale so the school received 100% of the voucher's value if it had say 50% of kids were on a no top-up fee needed scheme. This could slide to zero voucher value for pure private schools that can charge a premium. A sliding scale would force diversity rather than every school jumping on the same model to optimise profit.

    For a voucher scheme to work some-safe guards needs to be put in place to ensure that free education is still available across a range of schools and low income parents get more than a ghettoised education system.
    Last edited by East_coast; 16-06-2011 at 10:38 AM.

  7. #7

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    There is a way for poor but talented kids to get into good schools, it's called scholarships.

    Education is a very complicated issue and there are no easy solutions. There is no way to be fair to everyone. Whatever is done will always be a compromise. In HK, kids are streamed by ability so you get situations where you have kids of similar abilities in the same school. That's a fabulous scheme for the ones that are talented but putting all the weaker kids together is simply setting them up for failure and makes trying to create a healthy teaching environment incredibly challenging. Most studies have determined that in groups that are more diverse, the lower kids have a better chance of success however that only works when there's enough diversity. In many public schools around the world, parents that have money will generally send their kids to private schools therefore avoiding that diversity and creating a hole that can never be filled.

    As a parent, I wouldn't hesitate one second in trying to get my child in the best educational environment possible. However, when looking at society in general, I believe that we would benefit more from less segregation. The talented and the gifted are more likely to thrive regardless of the environment but it's the complete opposite for kids at the other end of the spectrum. However asking parents to be selfless and act for the benefit of others instead of their own children is completely unrealistic so we are left with a mish mash of attempts to somehow placate every group but never really committing to a course of action.

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  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by gilleshk:
    There is a way for poor but talented kids to get into good schools, it's called scholarships.
    This will only work where a small % of the schools are fee paying. If the top-up fee model is adopted i.e. means testing then the will be too many candidates.

    Quote Originally Posted by gilleshk:
    Education is a very complicated issue and there are no easy solutions. There is no way to be fair to everyone.
    Is it more complex than other industries or just that undeliverable promises are made by the politicians?

    As Aristotal pointed out some time ago 'There is nothing so unequal as treating unequals equally'

    Quote Originally Posted by gilleshk:
    The talented and the gifted are more likely to thrive regardless of the environment but it's the complete opposite for kids at the other end of the spectrum.
    If you have some research papers (from the last few years) that show streaming results in a further lowering of academic performance across lower ability groups it would be interesting to read. Or is it that the unstreamed class approach so popular with teachers because they don't have to try to teach an entire class after class of un-interested students.
    Last edited by East_coast; 17-06-2011 at 07:35 AM.