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Lawyer Needed - School "Deposit" Refund

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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by dear giant:
    On the other hand, this sort of thing does tend to run against the grain of HK culture's kiasu tendencies....
    Bravo DG : only you could have the gall to be able to take a dispute between an expat and and a school for expats, run by expats, taught by expats and turn it into a bitch-fest towards locals and their tendancies.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by HowardCoombs:
    Bravo DG : only you could have the gall to be able to take a dispute between an expat and and a school for expats, run by expats, taught by expats and turn it into a bitch-fest towards locals and their tendancies.
    I'll break it down for you.

    (1.) The ESF student body is not comprised wholly (or even overwhelmingly) of expatriate children. Many ESF students are the children of locals (who can make a case that their kids are growing up in an English-speaking environment, don't speak Canto well, etc.) rather than expats. (2.) AFAICT, every single reply to the OP (on this expat-oriented site) has been of the "You signed the agreement and should expect to abide by it." variety. (3.) I suspect that the OP is not an expat but rather an English-speaking local whose child was granted admission to the ESF. Expats generally would not try to finagle their way out of a deal like this.

  3. #23

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    1) What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?
    2) Every single reply was factual without insulting the rest of the populace, unlike yours.
    3) I suggest you look at the OPs handle as well as profile picture. I would suspect you are wrong.

    But please, dont let me stop you. You are doing a fine job of bringing this conversation down to racial insults.


  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by dear giant:
    I agree with you.

    On the other hand, this sort of thing does tend to run against the grain of HK culture's kiasu tendencies and every-situation-is-me-and-my-clan-scrambling-for-the-last-lifeboat/helicopter mentality. It's the norm in supermarkets where multiple lines exist (as opposed to the single lines in places like CitySuper and Great) and at banks of ATMs, for example, to disperse family members to multiple lines and then, when one team member reaches a checkout or an ATM, the rest scuttle over. Another example would be how, when MTR train doors open, well-trained young kids often leap into carriages and onto seats, using their hands to reserve places for other family members who amble in at a more leisurely pace.

    Making people put actual skin in the game and commit to something and then having the gall to hold them to their words if/when something more convenient, cheaper, or better in any way has come along is a form of cruel and unusual punishment here.
    You are really something. You have nothing to offer to the OP but you managed in one post to throw lots of rubbish around.
    Well done. Interestingly as usual the editors are quite fine with this.....no comment.


    OP, I won't be of much help either (but will not insults about every Hkong people) but agree with the overall consensus here that:
    - you have little if no claim at all
    - a decent lawyer will cost you a lot more than 10k if you really intend to go far with this

    This kind of system is common in HK, despite what some people are saying here (my wife had similar experience when doing her Master at HKU a few years ago, while being accepted in other uni too), we took the loss as someone said earlier and moved on. not easy I agree but it certainly avoided us to 'fight against the wind' and to loose time, energy and $ for something just not worth it.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lootoo:
    The law may "abhor forefeiture", but that does depend on the law in question--I'm not sure this principle applies at all in HK...
    It does indeed apply in HK (see footnote four of link) http://www.dlapiper.com/files/Public..._Quick_Law.pdf
    shri likes this.

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by big_panda:
    The use of the deposit will be set out in the agreement you signed, however, the forfeiture of the entire deposit could be challenged if the amount claimed is not a genuine pre-estimate of loss then it is likely to be a penalty clause and unenforceable.
    I hardly see anything in the amount forefited that would indicate a penalty, doesn't seem to be an extravagant amount, unconscionable or any of those other things courts throw around when not enforcing penalty clauses. Could easily make a case that approx 10k in resources - salaries/ staff resources to process the withdrawal and evaluation of another student, notices to parents, paperwork, as well as costs associated with beginning to process the first application, etc. is spent when a child withdraws. Sorry OP, but really think pursuing this with a lawyer will just cost you more money and is unlikely to get you anywhere.
    Fiona in HKG likes this.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by big_panda:
    It does indeed apply in HK (see footnote four of link) http://www.dlapiper.com/files/Public..._Quick_Law.pdf
    Thanks for that. I'm surprised, as HK law is otherwise so stacked against the lil' guy...

    So, back to "$10k will mostly get eaten up by legal fees" it is, then...
    shri likes this.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by elliee:
    I hardly see anything in the amount forefited that would indicate a penalty, doesn't seem to be an extravagant amount, unconscionable or any of those other things courts throw around when not enforcing penalty clauses. Could easily make a case that approx 10k in resources - salaries/ staff resources to process the withdrawal and evaluation of another student, notices to parents, paperwork, as well as costs associated with beginning to process the first application, etc. is spent when a child withdraws. Sorry OP, but really think pursuing this with a lawyer will just cost you more money and is unlikely to get you anywhere.
    By no means am I suggesting getting a lawyer or saying that filing proceedings would be a worthwhile exercise (two hours legal fees would eat up the deposit), but there is a ground to pursue (i.e. the forfeiture of entire deposit could be construed as a penalty). $10,000 in admin fees for processing a school application sounds ridiculous. Might be something for the small claims if the OP wishes to take it further and gets no where with the school.
    TheBrit likes this.

  9. #29

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    You can get a half decent lawyer to draft a letter and send it to the school. A consultation of minimum of one hour and then drafting a letter another hour will cost around $1200-$1500 an hour. So anywhere between $2400 to $3000.

    If I was doing this my intention would be to get them to pay up (goes without saying doesn't it). What I mean is getting scared to say it's not worth getting into a legal battle and they pay on the letter being delivered. If they don't pay or reply saying they are in their rights then I would A) let it be B) don't continue the services of the lawyer as next round of fees will be more than the proposed debt and go to submit to small claims. I think it's $700 application (can't remember) and some other fees but not much and then fight it out in the tribunal.

    Personally I wouldn't bother with the lawyer and just go straight to small claims if you still think you are hard done by.

    http://www.judiciary.gov.hk/en/crt_s...lt/html/sc.htm


  10. #30

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    Original Post Deleted
    What is 'extravagent' would be measured by what could conceivably be considered lost by the school, not by the amount of loss it would cause the applicant, which would have nothing to do with the calculation.

    Still don't think it would be hard for the school to argue that it is out on average about 10k in various admin fees and other expenses when a child withdraws, and any reasonable evidence or account of this would be enough for the school to win.