Is the TESOL well running dry, or am I going about it all wrong?

Manhattan212 · 17-02-2018, 04:24 AM

I have been looking for an English teaching post for the past few months in HK, and I’m not getting any action after submitting my CV. Given that I have been an English Lecturer for the past eight years (in mainland), I started first by looking at lecturer posts –but found very few, and the few I found didn’t respond to my inquiries. Next, I tried high schools, but I didn’t hear back from them either. I did get a response once that reads “Please be informed that teacher application would only be considered for whom has possessed a Bachelor of Education or equivalent teaching credential.” I tried asking what constitutes equivalent teaching credentials (given that I have a BA from the US, and an MA from the University of Macau, and a TESOL certificate) but I didn’t get a reply. After getting no joy there, I moved on to exploring Language Centers, but that hasn’t yielded any calls (or emails) either.

I imagine the factors I have in my favor might be my experience, my credentials, and the fact that I am a NET. In particular, I have over seven years of experience as an English Lecturer and a total of ten years teaching, all told. Moreover, I have a BA, MA, and TESOL certificate.

However, I imagine that the factors I have going against me are the fact that I am a non-white (I am a Hispanic mulatto-mestizo –and it is self-evident) in his forties with a BA and MA in Media Studies (rather than English or Education) whose youngest target demographics has been High School students; and I would need to be sponsored for a visa.

I would like to continue pursuit of education as my career. To that end, it is my hope to land a teaching gig while I obtain further qualifications (e.g. MATESOL, PGDE, etc.). However, I would like to invite opinions on what the right options/pathways might be. In particular, I wonder whether I would I be well served by a graduate degree online, HK colleges, or something else I haven’t yet considered. Beyond that, I wonder whether TESOL in HK, Macau, or anywhere in Asia –outside of mainland– is even a viable option at this point in time. Should I be considering either a different subject or a different career path, altogether?

Kowloon Goon · 17-02-2018, 08:22 AM

Being non-White shouldn't be an issue (or should be less of an issue) at the university level, though an MA in Media Studies makes you less competitive than other applicants with an education-focused degree. Given that some schools (that cater to younger students) hire European speakers of English (for whom the language is their second or third), I think it's also safe to say that race is certainly a potential issue in Hong Kong. These are things you know, as you've mentioned so much in your post.

MandM! · 17-02-2018, 11:07 AM

Most of the school hiring is done in season. Can't remember but check the newspaper and suddenly you'll see a bunch of postings. Think it's around April/May. If you miss it then likely you need to wait until next year.

Many people in this industry stay with their job so positions are not always readily available. You also lack a proper teaching degree from your University studies. Anyway you can try, and the key point is timing and you're applying at the wrong time of year currently.

Elegiaque · 17-02-2018, 01:59 PM

I'm in a similar situation to you, and I would say I'm more qualified than you. The fact is, the education sector is a for-profit industry and all kinds of qualifications have been created, which generate money, including the MA TESOL ($140,000 at HKU), the MA in Applied Linguistics ($110,000 at HKU), and the Diploma ($35,000). There are plenty of people graduating each year with these qualifications which exceed what you have. At the same time, the administration of universities and education institutions have become more complex and focused on quantifying targets and achievements, and when you have staff that tick the boxes of an appropriate education for English teaching, then you are doing your job better than by just relying on intuition about one's ability based on their background experience. I would say you should work on getting one of these qualifications to help administrators do their job in knowing you're skilled and capable (). It's the advice I'm following right now, though I hope to goodness it will be right, because I sure as hell don't want to come out of this with a higher qualification (and less money in my savings) but discover the new benchmark is a PhD. I think we have the British to thank for this problem. Another thing, more minor, is retired professors/teachers can/do take up part-time work as a "hobby", and they will be more qualified than you, too.

If your MA is in Media Studies, why don't you look for niche jobs with specific Departments focused on this area? They will offer courses to their students in English for that field of study, and that would be something you'd be well qualified for. I saw some job advertisements with something like this some time ago... I forget which university, maybe CityU, School of Communications? I don't remember.

I don't think MandM! is right, I think the high period was January, when secondary schools are recruiting for the new year. I saw the government is readvertising or accepting new applications again for the NET scheme, but again, it doesn't sound like you're qualified for the government's NET scheme.

This article, I think, articulates well what problem you're/we're facing:
Millennials Are Screwed - The Huffington Post

Manhattan212 · 17-02-2018, 05:40 PM

First of all, thanks for the replies. I appreciate the feedback.

Originally Posted by Kowloon Goon:

Being non-White shouldn't be an issue (or should be less of an issue) at the university level, though an MA in Media Studies makes you less competitive than other applicants with an education-focused degree. Given that some schools (that cater to younger students) hire European speakers of English (for whom the language is their second or third), I think it's also safe to say that race is certainly a potential issue in Hong Kong. These are things you know, as you've mentioned so much in your post.

I understand your response as telling me: 'If you were white, you could work in Language Centers; given that you're not white, you should be aiming for positions where credentials far outweigh superficial matters (e.g. age, race, ethnicity, etc.)'. Does that sound like an accurate interpretation? Either way, thanks for the response, and food for thought.

Originally Posted by MandM!:

Most of the school hiring is done in season. Can't remember but check the newspaper and suddenly you'll see a bunch of postings. Think it's around April/May. If you miss it then likely you need to wait until next year.

Many people in this industry stay with their job so positions are not always readily available. You also lack a proper teaching degree from your University studies. Anyway you can try, and the key point is timing and you're applying at the wrong time of year currently.

Thanks for the reply. Seems, other than the job hunting season remark, you're echoing the notion of credentials.

Originally Posted by Elegiaque:

I'm in a similar situation to you, and I would say I'm more qualified than you. The fact is, the education sector is a for-profit industry and all kinds of qualifications have been created, which generate money, including the MA TESOL ($140,000 at HKU), the MA in Applied Linguistics ($110,000 at HKU), and the Diploma ($35,000). There are plenty of people graduating each year with these qualifications which exceed what you have. At the same time, the administration of universities and education institutions have become more complex and focused on quantifying targets and achievements, and when you have staff that tick the boxes of an appropriate education for English teaching, then you are doing your job better than by just relying on intuition about one's ability based on their background experience. I would say you should work on getting one of these qualifications to help administrators do their job in knowing you're skilled and capable ([IMG]file:///C:/Users/NUC/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif[/IMG]). It's the advice I'm following right now, though I hope to goodness it will be right, because I sure as hell don't want to come out of this with a higher qualification (and less money in my savings) but discover the new benchmark is a PhD. I think we have the British to thank for this problem. Another thing, more minor, is retired professors/teachers can/do take up part-time work as a "hobby", and they will be more qualified than you, too.

While I don’t fully agree with some of your perspectives (i.e. I understand some of your remarks as suggesting that diplomas & certificates make better teachers than real world experience), nor am I interested in debating them, I appreciate you sharing your views all the same. You’ve given me something to think about. I am curious as to why you mentioned HKU twice. Is that the school to try to get into? What about HKIED/EduHK, CUHK, PolyU, or any of the other schools?

Originally Posted by Elegiaque:

If your MA is in Media Studies, why don't you look for niche jobs with specific Departments focused on this area? They will offer courses to their students in English for that field of study, and that would be something you'd be well qualified for. I saw some job advertisements with something like this some time ago... I forget which university, maybe CityU, School of Communications? I don't remember.

Thanks for bringing my attention to this option. I would certainly not refuse said position, but I’ve come across very few –and none have called me back.

Originally Posted by Elegiaque:

I don't think MandM! is right, I think the high period was January, when secondary schools are recruiting for the new year. I saw the government is readvertising or accepting new applications again for the NET scheme, but again, it doesn't sound like you're qualified for the government's NET scheme.

This article, I think, articulates well what problem you're/we're facing:
Millennials Are Screwed - The Huffington Post

That article you linked here… That’s pretty heavy; even if the author does try to end in a slightly more uplifting note –that note is probably not that likely to ring true (i.e. Although I hope I am wrong, I doubt people will get that politicized –and even if they do get active, the decision to elect Trump as president left me a little rattled); but this leads to a tangential conversation I do not want to engage –here and now.

Again, thanks for the comments. They’ve given me something to think about.

MandM! · 17-02-2018, 06:12 PM

@Elegiaque,

I'm not in the industry so I don't know when the hiring season is, was just guessing.

Everything is for profit, and people are just lazy and don't think. So people capitalise on this by creating programs for people to spend money or to sell some education or package (in fact, these things are not always required, if you have the ability to get that job, you can figure out how to get into it). I've hired plenty of people to work in the US, and they are the worst workers in the world, lazy, show up to work late/drunk or not show up at all, they don't even bother to call you, then they complain about their paychecks and pay, always trying to get more money for no reason. It doesn't matter if you pay $15/hr or 35/hr, still a problem. We are supposed to feel bad for these people? What a joke!!

At the end of the day, people need to make an educated decision. Many go to university for no reason nor purpose then complain about debt -- I don't feel bad for them, they made that call. I went to university, I got a degree, now I have a bill, and I'm fine with that. I don't even work in a related field, but I enjoyed university, learned a lot, and it helped me to grow up, I'm not complaining nor blaming others for my decision to go to uni.

Housing in the US is affordable, and FHA offers 97% loans. If someone wants to pay rent and not buy, well that's their decision. If people are living at home, why don't they live at home, save a few bucks so they can get on their feet? Instead everyone wants instant gratification. $100 in their pocket and they gotta get out of Mom's house.

Bad choices, that's all.

I don't think the US system is broken, it's very easy to succeed if you play the game right -- there are many things that I like and don't like. Health care is a big scam, I'll agree to that. Other than that, man up!

hullexile · 19-02-2018, 08:15 AM

Original Post Deleted

Not forgetting of course the millenials in the developing world. Oh poor poor me what a hard life.

Elegiaque · 19-02-2018, 10:03 AM

Original Post Deleted

Would you like to pay off my student debt and help me with part time job applications?

You're not in this boat, so who are you to talk about perspective in your self-owned home.

You call it whining, but I wonder how much time you've spent in the states, or if you've had to pay for education there that is does not have any vocational focus. I'm sure you had different options and probably didn't pay for your university degree (or graduate with debt), and I suspect your kids won't either. The article is specific for America, which is where the op comes from.

Anyway, off topic...