Like Tree84Likes

Pre-Nursery madness

Closed Thread
Page 5 of 7 FirstFirst ... 2 3 4 5 6 7 LastLast
  1. #41

    After 8 years of teaching in HK. at language centres and in a private capacity I suspect that the reason interviews are conducted are to eliminate students that could negatively affect the school's image and also to reduce potential parental complaints. If schools accept a special needs student for example then local HK. parents have been known to complain that the student will cause their kid(s) to have their education dragged down because now the SEN. student is receiving extra help at the expense of their kids or the parents will complain that they don't want that kind of student in the same class(es) as their kids(s) which leads to said SEN./"disruptive" student(s) being kicked out of school/kept at school but denied extra assistance. HK. parents have been known to threaten to withdraw their kid(s) from schools with other "less desirable" students and will use that as leverage against learning centre owners.

    Having been a student at a private British college, these kinds of institutes only see pound signs/$$$$s, if there is even a whiff of scandal or dissatisfaction from fee-paying parents then every effort will be made to appease them and keep their money.

    The interviews prep. system just makes people running these courses very, very rich. I've prepped. and designed courses and materials to teach these young children what amounts to pre-interview etiquette courses before, if their parents will spare the time to teach them manners at home then maybe these companies wouldn't be so prominent.

    Coolboy likes this.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by jgl:
    Huh, I've been pretty impressed with most aspects of ESF primary. The teaching staff, the curriculum, how it's taught. On the occasional instance of conflict between kids happening, it's been handled quickly and well. It certainly beats my own primary school experiences from decades past.

    We get a fairly good idea of what the kids are covering week by week, but we could do with more detail and feedback.

    My main issue with ESF is more philosophical than practical. They've clearly moved away from their original purpose, and are more of a generic international school option. Though even this is understandable given that they've lost government financial support.
    A lot of teachers are primed to only provide POSITIVE feedback about students. Negative feedback apparently only implies that:
    1 The teacher can't teach properly.
    2 The teacher can't manage the class.
    3 The teacher has no teaching qualifications/experience.
    4 The teacher is insulting the student/parents.
    5 The student is too stupid to teach, in the teacher's opinion.
    6 The teacher doesn't teach anything in the class.
    7 The school employed an absolute idiot to "teach".


    Keeping feedback positive ensures that the parents keep their kid(s) in classes and money in the school's coffers. This means that even the worst students are kept provided that their parents are among the richest.

    Esp. for learning centres with their own "personal curricula" they won't provide detailed feedback for fear of parents going to other providers and showing their feedback to competitors and losing customers. I've heard some say that since most kids are picked up by FDWs. that they won't remember most of what they're told in the way of feedback/some parents don't care (some really don't, btw.) and too much feedback might lead parents to think that something is remiss etc. Especially if the feedback is written in English, it's written in baby English because most parents don't understand English anyway, and using too "convoluted" vocabulary amounts to showing off by the teacher. I've had one employer who would stand right next to me when giving feedback because these bell end parents are too weak/easily offended one word against them it's like dissing their ancestors.

  3. #43

    Join Date
    May 2019
    Posts
    119
    Quote Originally Posted by angeluscomplex:
    A lot of teachers are primed to only provide POSITIVE feedback about students. Negative feedback apparently only implies that:
    1 The teacher can't teach properly.
    2 The teacher can't manage the class.
    3 The teacher has no teaching qualifications/experience.
    4 The teacher is insulting the student/parents.
    5 The student is too stupid to teach, in the teacher's opinion.
    6 The teacher doesn't teach anything in the class.
    7 The school employed an absolute idiot to "teach".


    Keeping feedback positive ensures that the parents keep their kid(s) in classes and money in the school's coffers. This means that even the worst students are kept provided that their parents are among the richest.

    Esp. for learning centres with their own "personal curricula" they won't provide detailed feedback for fear of parents going to other providers and showing their feedback to competitors and losing customers. I've heard some say that since most kids are picked up by FDWs. that they won't remember most of what they're told in the way of feedback/some parents don't care (some really don't, btw.) and too much feedback might lead parents to think that something is remiss etc. Especially if the feedback is written in English, it's written in baby English because most parents don't understand English anyway, and using too "convoluted" vocabulary amounts to showing off by the teacher. I've had one employer who would stand right next to me when giving feedback because these bell end parents are too weak/easily offended one word against them it's like dissing their ancestors.
    Don’t want to say too much about learning centres but for ESF, very happy with them. They do give the full spectrum of feedback but instead of criticism they call it areas for improvement or some similar positive tone. There is a noticeable cultural difference when it comes to criticism. At risk of making inaccurate generalisations, for Chinese, criticism is often taken as a loss of face. However, I personally take believe in the saying about critics being our friends because they show us our faults and weaknesses. I have zero problem and only gratitude if the ESF teachers give me comments on how my kid could be better.

  4. #44

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    11,884
    Quote Originally Posted by angeluscomplex:
    A lot of teachers are primed to only provide POSITIVE feedback about students. Negative feedback apparently only implies that:
    1 The teacher can't teach properly.
    2 The teacher can't manage the class.
    3 The teacher has no teaching qualifications/experience.
    4 The teacher is insulting the student/parents.
    5 The student is too stupid to teach, in the teacher's opinion.
    6 The teacher doesn't teach anything in the class.
    7 The school employed an absolute idiot to "teach".


    Keeping feedback positive ensures that the parents keep their kid(s) in classes and money in the school's coffers. This means that even the worst students are kept provided that their parents are among the richest.

    Esp. for learning centres with their own "personal curricula" they won't provide detailed feedback for fear of parents going to other providers and showing their feedback to competitors and losing customers. I've heard some say that since most kids are picked up by FDWs. that they won't remember most of what they're told in the way of feedback/some parents don't care (some really don't, btw.) and too much feedback might lead parents to think that something is remiss etc. Especially if the feedback is written in English, it's written in baby English because most parents don't understand English anyway, and using too "convoluted" vocabulary amounts to showing off by the teacher. I've had one employer who would stand right next to me when giving feedback because these bell end parents are too weak/easily offended one word against them it's like dissing their ancestors.
    Did you mean to quote me? I... have no idea how your post has any relationship or relevance to what I wrote.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by jgl:
    Did you mean to quote me? I... have no idea how your post has any relationship or relevance to what I wrote.
    You said that you wished that the schools would provide more comprehensive feedback about students. Most schools will tell you what you want to hear, for their own convenience or just to ensure you keep paying them.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Praetorian:
    Don’t want to say too much about learning centres but for ESF, very happy with them. They do give the full spectrum of feedback but instead of criticism they call it areas for improvement or some similar positive tone. There is a noticeable cultural difference when it comes to criticism. At risk of making inaccurate generalisations, for Chinese, criticism is often taken as a loss of face. However, I personally take believe in the saying about critics being our friends because they show us our faults and weaknesses. I have zero problem and only gratitude if the ESF teachers give me comments on how my kid could be better.
    You don't, unfortunately other parents aren't so open minded.
    Coolboy likes this.

  7. #47

    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    8,280

    My 2 year old daughter (around 9 years ago now) failed interviews at both Victoria and Habitat kindergartens because the interviewer forced her to sit still in a chair, not playing, held up a picture of an apple and said "Whats this?" My daughter was shy and didnt give a crap about the picture and said nothing. Then they gave her an abacus thingy and asked her to count with it. Again my daughter didn't give a fuck about a stupid abacus. So she failed. Luckily she got into a 3rd kindergarten that didnt do this kind of crap, and then later into the Australian school was no problem at all.

    9 years later and she's doing fine, starting high school next year and already smarter than me.

    Coolboy, rani, martykay and 3 others like this.

  8. #48

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    11,884
    Quote Originally Posted by angeluscomplex:
    You said that you wished that the schools would provide more comprehensive feedback about students. Most schools will tell you what you want to hear, for their own convenience or just to ensure you keep paying them.
    We definitely get useful critical feedback from the teachers. Which we appreciate, but pretty much confirms what we're already aware of. The additional and independent perspective is still useful.

    I'm fairly confident that the environment is fairly different from language centres or interview prep classes.
    Last edited by jgl; 22-01-2020 at 07:55 AM.
    TheBrit likes this.

  9. #49

    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    4,188
    Quote Originally Posted by jgl:
    My main issue with ESF is more philosophical than practical. They've clearly moved away from their original purpose, and are more of a generic international school option. Though even this is understandable given that they've lost government financial support.
    I really wonder what the student body is going to look like 5-10 years from now. The through train policy and kindergarten debentures massively favor people who are already in HK when their children are 2/3 years old. That is, mainly HK locals (who have a foreign passport for convenience purposes). It's going to be very hard for anyone else including genuine expats who come over later to get a spot in primary.
    shri, jgl and MABinPengChau like this.

  10. #50

    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    θ–„ζ‰Άζž—
    Posts
    47,965
    I really wonder what the student body is going to look like 5-10 years from now.
    From my observation - the cycle started during SARS when the town seemingly emptied out. After that, sibling priority started locking expats out. We're also in a cycle where parents who were students get priority for their kids.

Closed Thread
Page 5 of 7 FirstFirst ... 2 3 4 5 6 7 LastLast