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Repeating the year v. continuing in a lower band class

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  1. #11

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    If the decision lies with the family to decide whether to repeat a year or go to a lower band, I would ask the student herself what she thinks. Some children don't want to be in the high-pressure "top tier/band" and might be happier at a lower level and some would not.


  2. #12

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    It is also rare in the UK to retake a year. I've never thought not that as a European thing....more US?

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by justjoe86:

    Now my opinion (which I guess people may disagree with) having been in such a school was that the kids in set 5 had themselves to blame. There are exceptions such as learning difficulties which is another discussion. In general they were lazy and made no attempt to improve. We can ask some questions about their backgrounds, etc, but plenty of kids with very poor backgrounds were able to move up by putting some work in. Personally I don't have much sympathy for those guys as they were the ones most likely to start a fight with you for making eye contact.
    I think.that is a little unfair. There will be some kids in those classes that are perfectly able to achieve but are unable to do so because of the behaviour of the others. There could be many reasons why they ended up in that class.

    Also the teacher can make a big difference.i have seen appallingly behaved classes be completely different with a competent teacher.

  4. #14

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    Is it really the case that these “band 3” secondary schools give no opportunity for kids to catch up and excel later? Surely if the streaming is prevalent at primary level, there must be a top tier stream even at a generally underachieving secondary school? Or is it that the local universities will never offer a place to those from these band 3 schools?

    If so it seems a university admissions issue. They are slowly getting onto this in the UK, with good universities making some allowances and acknowledging that if you come out of a crap school and tough background with ABB you are probably at least as smart and twice as hardworking as the kid coming out of Eton with AAA.

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  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by avocado22:
    Don't think there is such thing as a "European" system. UK still has grammar schools in many counties, where your entire secondary education is based on a result of a test you take at 10 years old.
    The Hong Kong people I speak to who are moving seem to almost universally hope to get their kids into these Grammar Schools

  6. #16

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    Repeat a year if you don't achieve is very common (well, *was*) in Italy too.

    Also: I'm against preventing kids from school XYZ to ever go to uni..I think they should be always given a chance (by way of entrance exams, consideration of past performances, etc)... there are many different circumstances, and those change, so "mark" a person early on is unfair imho.

    Natural selection worked pretty well in my batch, the first year of uni..about 350 signed up for calculus one, 150 showed up at calculus 2 six months later, only 60 came back for the first semester of year 2


  7. #17

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    On the repeat a year or lower band original question I think it depends on the case. Why did the student underperform? Was it a temporary problem? Which option is most likely to deal best with the problem?

    On another issue I always think there is confusion between high expectation and challenging on the one hand and high pressure and stress on the other.

    With the right teachers a challenging environment can still be fun and enjoyable and the kids can still be creative.


  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peaky:
    Is it really the case that these “band 3” secondary schools give no opportunity for kids to catch up and excel later? Surely if the streaming is prevalent at primary level, there must be a top tier stream even at a generally underachieving secondary school? Or is it that the local universities will never offer a place to those from these band 3 schools?

    If so it seems a university admissions issue. They are slowly getting onto this in the UK, with good universities making some allowances and acknowledging that if you come out of a crap school and tough background with ABB you are probably at least as smart and twice as hardworking as the kid coming out of Eton with AAA.
    The "band system" has been officially abolished because the universities were effectively banning the lower tier schools. Of course, everyone still knows which schools were band 3 and bans them anyway.

    Top stream Band 3 students may just about get into one of the new private universities but they are more expensive and don't have such a good reputation.

  9. #19

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    TLDR VERSION:

    OP... I would say... If given the choice, repeat the year. And do it with maximum effort. With extreme hard work and motivation I personally believe opportunities are good. And the younger that motivation comes, the better. But whichever system, I think intense effort and determination will allow anyone to rise and get out of a bad situation.

    Now back to the side conversation.........

    Quote Originally Posted by Pauljoecoe:
    I think.that is a little unfair. There will be some kids in those classes that are perfectly able to achieve but are unable to do so because of the behaviour of the others. There could be many reasons why they ended up in that class.

    Also the teacher can make a big difference. i have seen appallingly behaved classes be completely different with a competent teacher.
    I realise you're saying this because you're a compassionate person who sees the good in others. Yes, these kids had reasons. In many cases they had little money, parents who didn't care (often alcoholic, single, or violent parents), they were in a culture where studying was seen as pathetic and if you tried too hard you'd get beaten up by those who resented you. It was a dog eat dog world where violence was the primary language.

    The thing is, I was one of those kids, too. I had all the excuses above plus more I won't go into. But I am extremely grateful to the UK's education system. Why?

    Because despite all that shitty stuff above, what school gave us ALL was opportunity. If you were motivated to do well, teachers bent over backwards to help you, giving up their free time and putting all their waking hours into the hope that they could help some kids get out of the bad situations they were in. If you decided you wanted to work hard, you got everything you needed. There was not a kid in set 5 who could not get access to such help and at the very least push themselves up to set 2. They simply didn't try. I'm sure they had reasons for not trying, but either way, they didn't. As I said above, the kids I do feel sympathy for were those with learning difficulties, but not the vast majority who were in a very similar situation to my own and chose to be brutal thugs.

    Back to the topic, I think one of the biggest problems here in HK is that schools become so polarised at secondary school, meaning it isn't about teenage motivation, but it's your motivation at the age of 8-10 that makes the difference. This really is a sad situation, since it is totally normal for an eight year old to be uninterested in school, and kids mature at very different rates. Many of them may become motivated at the age of 13 and find it's too late.
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  10. #20

    A lot of the kids in the band one schools are good at absorbing information , regurgitating and have an army of tutors for everything.

    I have a friend who has a Ph.D doctorate from Hong Kong. He went to a band 5 school and what he says makes sense.
    The really smart kids are those who are creative but when in the HK system are seen as trouble makers because they won't sit still and just absorb the information. They are bored with the unstimulating teaching style, the 40 kids in a classroom.... ....So these end up being the guys who go to band 5, drop out, and run the creative scams .