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Cantonese vs. Mandarin?

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  1. #21

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    Cantonese Vs. Mandarin

    Hi,

    It's like this, in China as a whole, Mandarin is more widely spoken. Cantonese is the predominant language in the South East including Hong Kong & Macau. This situation will not change in our lifetimes!!

    The vast majority of overseas Chinese communities are in fact made up of Hong Kong expats and their descendants. This means that if you learn Mandarin you'll probably find that you can't communicate with Chinese people living in Europe/US/Canada/Australia, etc, etc, etc.

    Anyone who says Cantonese is in decline is in mental decline! 60 million people in HK/Macau/South East Mainland speak it exclusively as well as 40 million people living overseas!!

    At least 30 countries list it as a significant minority language. In Vancouver you could get by knowing only Cantonese I'm sure.

    Hope that helps,

    Tony


  2. #22

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    Jenny is pointing out that Mandarin is probably the best language to learn rather than Cantonese in present day HK. Not which is the better language or which is more cool or which one is dying etc.

    If you want to fully assimilate in HK then sure Cantonese is obviously better but if you want a language that will be of more use then the one that is (will be) spoken by the most of China seems to make sense. Every year more and more HK's speak Mandarin so it will only become more useful.

    jenny69 and MovingIn07 like this.

  3. #23

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    piratesaarrrrrrr!

    I agreeaaaarrrr!!

    Quote Originally Posted by virago:
    Yes, I have seen a big change in the last 5 years. Mandarin is no problem now to get around and speak all day.

    I don't think Mandarin is dull. Go to Beijing, they sound like pirates!!!

  4. #24

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    What?

    Thanks Jenny, did I mention your name in my post? Perhaps my "China Phobia" is a defence mechanism against your pro China aggression

    Anyway, considering I'm in the process of getting my mixed race sons, who are being educated in local schools, Chinese passports and I choose to live here in China with my Chinese wife I'm a little put out at being called China Phobic!

    My comment about Vancouver is only to point that while Mandarin is certainly more useful in mainland China it's pretty useless outside of it.

    It's a bit like learning Russian, squillions of people speak it in Russia and it's very handy there but it's hardly an international language like English, Spanish and French is it?

    If you're not going to live or do business in mainland China learning Mandarin is only of novelty value. Just my opinion, please don't get angry!

    Quote Originally Posted by jenny69:
    Tony

    Why are you being so China Phobic? Nowhere did I say that Cantonese is in decline. Simply stated I believe that as a second language to study and learn that Mandarin is much more useful than Cantonese.

    Who cares if you can get around in Vancouver by only speaking Cantonese - especially if you are English Speaking!

    It is a fact that many expats have lived in HK for many years and still cannot speak Cantonese but are now studying Mandarin. As a matter of fact more and more native Cantonese speakers in HK are now studying Mandarin.

    Is does not mean that Cantonese will be replaced; it simply underlines the importance of being able to speak Mandarin.

    Muagh!

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by bryant.english:
    my mixed race sons, who are being educated in local schools,
    Cantonese makes sense for young kids as they will be able to pick-up both languages over time, I guess it depends who wants to learn the language.
    Last edited by East_coast; 20-06-2010 at 05:27 AM.

  6. #26

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    Like people have mentioned, if you intend to spend most of your time in Hong Kong, Cantonese is definitely the language to learn.

    I work with several Chinese teachers who speak English and teach Mandarin. The teachers who have been in Hong Kong for a while (> 5 years) have found it necessary to learn Cantonese to do most day-to-day activities (shopping at wet markets, asking for directions on the street, etc), even though they could do all this in Mandarin. The teachers that have found it difficult to learn Cantonese or never bothered to learn do find that it is not as convenient, even though they are able to communicate in English and Mandarin.

    It also used to be the case that if you wanted to mix with overseas Chinese communities that you would have to learn how to speak Cantonese, but with more and more immigrants coming from Mainland China, this isn't necessary anymore.


  7. #27

    I have lived in Asia for almost 30 years. I was
    fortunate to have taken the time to learn
    Mandarin early on. I have found it very useful
    in Taiwan, SEA, of course Mainland, and yes
    even in HK.

    I have lived in Shanghai and (sorry Jenny)
    never learned Shanghainese. I am currently
    living in HK and have only picked up a bit
    of Cantonese. In both cities I get on fine with
    Mandarin if needed .

    At times I travel to China with my HK colleagues
    whose Mandarin is very poor - at best. I am
    embarrassed for them that a "gweilo" has
    to translate for them!

    If I were a HK Chinese I would definitely make
    sure my Mandarin was up to par and I
    would encourage my children to learn
    Pu Tong Hua! As it is I have two young adult
    daughters who both are fluent in Mandarin.

    Cantonese is not in decline and Mandarin
    is more important!!!
    Posted via Mobile Device


  8. #28

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    oh good: an opportunity for me to rant about the lack of cantonese options in schools for expat kids.

    i think we can all agree that, if you're living in hk for the forseeable future, cantonese is by far the most useful language to learn (yes, it's more difficult for an indo-european speaker to pick up than mandarin as an L2, but really you're comparing apples and oranges to a broom stick; any sino-tibetan language is going to be rough at first).

    my beef is that there are so few cantonese opportunities in hk schools for expats' kids. my partner and i want our kids to have a cantonese-immersed education *and* we also want them to enjoy the same pedagogical standard of an international school. not happening. there are no international-type schools that teach in cantonese and no good cantonese-medium edb schools that don't treat kids like products on a factory line. please, someone challenge those sweeping statements; if it exists, i want to send my kids there!

    as for being amused at keeping dying languages alive: languages are human-made. we're not talking about natural evolution; if a language is endangered, it's usually because of political (case in point: cantonese in guangdong) or economic (i.e. human-made) pressures. every language is of immense value. the welsh, basque, irish, nama, inuit, etc seem to understand this. when will hk?

    oh, and while i'm ranting, i am tired to tears of hearing about how china will, at some nebulous point in the future, become so powerful that mandarin will become the pre-eminent language of the whole freakin' universe. the people who believe this either have a very poor grasp of geopolitics, neo-colonialism and just general history or they are 'singoists' who will say anything.

    if you're conducting international-level business in china, it's neither cantonese nor mandarin that you need to know. at this moment, probably more mainlanders are learning english than westerners are learning mandarin (probably: i couldn't be arsed to wikipidia that). my point is, should the political climate change on the mainland, it will be very interesting to see how much staying power the common tongue - artificially imposed on a large portion of mainlanders - really has.

    and! cantonese is not a dialect. it is a very different language from mandarin. the fact that they share a writing system counts for little if the writing system is logographic. even english could be written in kaishu, but that doesn't make them relatives by any stretch.


  9. #29

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    Jenny,

    "(they live in a more affluent part of Vancouver)." I'm sorry, my friends must have been from the working class part of Vancouver, gosh, some of them don't even have maids and they drive those awful Ford cars and work with their hands!

    "There is a simply question for Tony; If your son can only take one class, Mandarin or Cantonese", not both. Which one will you let him take?"

    Well, there is a simple answer, my sons live in HK, are growing up here, going to school here, all of his family on his Mother's side speak Cantonese as their first and in most cases only language. Hmmm, let me think, gosh, this is really tough........thinking.............thinking....oh I know....CANTONESE for crying out loud!!!!

    Jenny, I suspect you are a troll just trying to wind me up, either that or you and I are doomed to disagree with each other. Anyway, I guess it's differences of opinion that keep these forums interesting right?


  10. #30

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    If you were a 30yo business person then the language to learn may be different


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