Is anybody offended by 'gwailo'?

[dear giant]

Gweilo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Nowadays, Gwailo is simply a Cantonese word used to refer to Caucasians without any negative connotations."

Amazon.com: Gweilo: Memories of a Hong Kong Childhood (9780553816723): Martin Booth: Books

Check the Talk page for that Wikipedia article: Gweilo: derogatory

As for the book, I trust that you noticed the bit in the Amazon product description where "gweilo" is translated as "pale fellow", which is not at all what the word means.

On page 6 of the book, the author does allow that it really does translate as "ghost man".

You can keep citing individual Western people who don't find the word offensive but we keep returning to the fact that it is a slur with an inherently extremely negative meaning.

Chinese people do not generally like ghosts, but some refer to white people as ghosts. If you like the word, then that's fine for you. It's still a racist epithet.

Have you read Dick Gregory's memoir, Nigger : An Autobiography?

Does the fact that someone used that word in a book title and that some African-Americans use that word make it an OK, non-racist, non-hurtful word for everyone to use?

What is so difficult for you to understand?

[Mat]

You've got a Wikipedia article last edited by either a racist or a clueless person. We've had some people in this thread spout the same nonsense and anyone can edit Wikipedia.

As for the book, I trust that you noticed the bit in the Amazon product description where "gweilo" is translated as "pale fellow", which is not at all what the word means.

On page 6 of the book, the author does allow that it really does translate as "ghost man".

You can keep citing individual Western people who don't find the word offensive but we keep returning to the fact that it is a slur with an inherently extremely negative meaning.

Chinese people do not generally like ghosts, but some refer to white people as ghosts. If you like the word, then that's fine for you. It's still a racist epithet.

Have you read Dick Gregory's memoir, Nigger : An Autobiography?

Does the fact that someone used that word in a book title and that some African-Americans use that word make it an OK, non-racist, non-hurtful word for everyone to use?

What is so difficult for you to understand?

As I said, we got your point long ago, you do not like it and consider it offensive - fine by me.

I personally do not care...

Re wiki - funny how ppl sometime use it as a base for argument but when the definition does not suit them, they dismiss it promptly.

Now DG, once again, we got your point, you can relax.

[dear giant]

As I said, we got your point long ago, you do not like it and consider it offensive - fine by me.

I personally do not care...

Re wiki - funny how ppl sometime use it as a base for argument but when the definition does not suit them, they dismiss it promptly.

Now DG, once again, we got your point, you can relax.

I'm quite relaxed ... though I am puzzled why, if (as you say) you don't care about this issue, you keep posting in this thread and attempting to justify the use of a racial slur.

Again, see the talk page for that article (link added to my previous reply to you in this thread).

[Creative83]

Re wiki - funny how ppl sometime use it as a base for argument but when the definition does not suit them, they dismiss it promptly.

It's true.

In the face this:

Some people are taking the literal meaning of the word ‘Gwei’ too seriously. Cantonese people apply this term to describe more than skin colour. Examples: a creative genius is 鬼才; a pauper is a 窮鬼; someone hilarious is 好鬼馬 and depending on tone a cheeky/naughty person is affectionately called a 衰鬼.

you still get comments such as

Chinese people do not generally like ghosts, but some refer to white people as ghosts. If you like the word, then that's fine for you. It's still a racist epithet.

Complete disregard to contradicting facts.

[dear giant]

C83, of those words that Swell cited, two are negative words: "pauper" and "naughty".

That word for "genius" uses the character for ghost because, if you check the etymology, it can be traced back to being coined for a particular writer/poet from the Tang Dynasty who write dark, scary, upsetting poems/stories.

With regards to the characters for hilarious ... the original is 扮鬼扮馬 ("pretend to be a ghost and a horse") but two characters were later removed, leaving us with 鬼馬 as "funny and hilarious" ... but the meaning is closer to "tricky"/"sneaky"/"crafty" ... which also has a negative connotation.

You've given me two negative words and the others turn out to really be linked to ghost as in ghost. One of those relatively benign words is still a bit negative.

What you're doing is not too far off someone quoting someone else citing the word "n*ggardly" as evidence that "n*gger" isn't a slur.

[dear giant]

More from my wife:

鬼馬 also came from "鬼五馬六" = ghost five horse six

On the fifth day of the first month (of the lunar calendar), Chinese say it is ox day and on the sixth day of the first month Chinese say it is horse day, so on those two days people worship "ox head and horse face" (they are soldiers in hell).

So 鬼馬 can also mean secretive, mysterious, absurd, weird.

[Creative83]

C83, of those words that Swell cited, two are negative words: "pauper" and "naughty".

That word for "genius" uses the character for ghost because, if you check the etymology, it can be traced back to being coined for a particular writer/poet from the Tang Dynasty who write dark, scary, upsetting poems/stories.

With regards to the characters for hilarious ... the original is 扮鬼扮馬 ("pretend to be a ghost and a horse") but two characters were later removed, leaving us with 鬼馬 as "funny and hilarious" ... but the meaning is closer to "tricky"/"sneaky"/"crafty" ... which also has a negative connotation.

You've given me two negative words and the others turn out to really be linked to ghost as in ghost. One of those relatively benign words is still a bit negative.

What you're doing is not too far off someone quoting someone else citing the word "n*ggardly" as evidence that "n*gger" isn't a slur.

I just think you should step back a bit and revisit this.

Gwailo is one of those words where if you look for evidence in either side, you can find it.

It's a word that is in the dominant vocabulary, so people here don't actually think history or origin of the word when they use it. So perhaps the word itself may have its historical origin and it may not be historically well intended, but you can't bring that to the table because people in this day and age don't break words apart and analyze them like this.

All you can accuse locals of is not having good manners, or not 'refined' so to speak.

[jaykay]

I'm pretty much with DG on this. My wife would never use the term, nor her family and they have been known to correct those who do. They take it as derogatory.

For me, no problem. Use the word BUT be prepared for the use of other words back which some would take as racist, but of course I will not be using words in a racist or aggressive way so they can't be. Can they?

[Gatts]

My wife and in-laws also think that it is an offensive word and do not use it.

They are native Canto speakers.

"Sei Gwei Lo" (dead ghost man") is like calling someone a "f*cking d*ckhead". Adding the first bit amplifies the negativity. It doesn't mean that "gweilo" is just an innocent, completely neutral term for "white guy".

Your in-laws are being awfully careful with their words that is all. The simple fact is that 95% of the use of Gwai Lo in HK is meant as a non-derogatory term for caucasians. Point and end of story.

[Mat]

I'm pretty much with DG on this. My wife would never use the term, nor her family and they have been known to correct those who do. They take it as derogatory.

For me, no problem. Use the word BUT be prepared for the use of other words back which some would take as racist, but of course I will not be using words in a racist or aggressive way so they can't be. Can they?

and my wife is local and her family and friends use it - and in front of me. We can continue going in circle or just agree that the vast majority - as proven by the poll her - don't give a shit but a few feel offended.