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Google and the diversity debate

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  1. #131

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    Quote Originally Posted by Golem:
    He's openly criticizing company policy and reinforcing stereotypes and you don't see how this can stir up shit? He's basically saying that some people get hired for their gender/race and implying they are less competent. It may or may not be true but it's certainly not a scientific fact and you can bet a lot of people would not look at him kindly because of what he implies. The sub text of that is that if you're a white male, you would be more competent. I read this and I cringe. It reminds me of racists that takes little bits of truth and then form the conclusion that they want to form. It's not his job to question policy in the company, if you're a conservative troglodyte, go and work in the White House.
    I read the memo and I don't remember him advocating one colour of the human skin over another. He was implying that women are worse at some stuff than men. His specific arguments were questionable, I would agree. But once again, I don't remember him writing that, say, people of African descend are worse at computer science than those of paler persuasion...

  2. #132

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    Quote Originally Posted by orel100x:
    I read the memo and I don't remember him advocating one colour of the human skin over another. He was implying that women are worse at some stuff than men. His specific arguments were questionable, I would agree. But once again, I don't remember him writing that, say, people of African descend are worse at computer science than those of paler persuasion...
    No he did not say that directly, I gave that as a more extreme example . He mostly focused on women however he did say that he believed there were unfair hiring practices based on race, gender etc in order to gain equal representation. As I said, the sub text of this would be that anyone of the people that are not white males would be potentially less qualified and the white male would be. Like Richard Spencer of alt right fame, he's clever enough to phrase what he says in a way that doesn't directly attack and he takes kernel of truths to suit his argument. There is no way this kind of post would not create a massive amount of hostility within the company and as I said before, it's not the role of the employee to discuss or make company policy.

  3. #133

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    Quote Originally Posted by orel100x:
    ...He was implying that women are worse at some stuff than men....
    Thats it.
    What more do you need? Do you think a company needs any more to fire the idiot for pissing off the women in the company?

    There is no need to debate whether the premise is true or false - no need to discuss if its scientific or not. He opened his mouth, stirred up shit and the consequence is that he pissed people off and got canned.

    There is no protection and one should not expect any when mouthing off.....

  4. #134

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    Tell you what, regardless of the "PC nonsense"... If you're tired of your job, send an email to all employees of your company detailing what you think your bosses and the company are doing wrong and how you think these should be discussed by employees and see how long it takes before you get a call.

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  5. #135

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    Quote Originally Posted by Golem:
    He's openly criticizing company policy and reinforcing stereotypes and you don't see how this can stir up shit? He's basically saying that some people get hired for their gender/race and implying they are less competent. It may or may not be true but it's certainly not a scientific fact and you can bet a lot of people would not look at him kindly because of what he implies. The sub text of that is that if you're a white male, you would be more competent. I read this and I cringe. It reminds me of racists that takes little bits of truth and then form the conclusion that they want to form. It's not his job to question policy in the company, if you're a conservative troglodyte, go and work in the White House.
    People getting hired for their gender or race over white men is offensive to any normal white man too.

    Keep pushing and this shit is going to bite back hard...mark my words, Trump is just the beginning...what a nightmare.
    Last edited by SpeakCantonese; 20-02-2018 at 04:37 PM.
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  6. #136

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    Quote Originally Posted by SpeakCantonese:
    An employee would be free to write that memo and give it to me or their manager.
    I think (but it's been a while since I looked closely at this) that this was what he was trying to do. I don't believe it was intended to go public. But in this day and age, everything ends up being public.
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  7. #137

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    Quote Originally Posted by SpeakCantonese:
    People getting hired for the gender or race over white men is offensive is offensive to any normal white man too.

    Keep pushing and this shit is going to bite back hard...mark my words, Trump is just the beginning...what a nightmare.
    I agree. That (rather long) article Kimmy linked a few pages back is relevant here. The PC-brigade have acquired power while at the same time making out that their views are "morally right" and denying that power. And I don't disagree with everything they stand for - but I don't agree with all of it either. Society needs to be able to debate these issues and agree an approach, not be forced into it by a minority. Because otherwise, as you suggest, the silent majority is going to fight back - and rather than do it rationally and sensibly, we end up with reactions like Trump. Which is even worse.

  8. #138

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    Quote Originally Posted by HK_Katherine:
    I think (but it's been a while since I looked closely at this) that this was what he was trying to do. I don't believe it was intended to go public. But in this day and age, everything ends up being public.
    He sent it to a mailing list. If he didnt want it to go public, that was a pretty stupid thing to do.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google...l_Echo_Chamber

    Society needs to be able to debate these issues and agree an approach
    Debate away but dont expect to keep your job if you take on a position that threatens your coworkers. If you have expectations of consequence free speech, then you're misguided.

  9. #139

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    Quote Originally Posted by HK_Katherine:
    I agree. That (rather long) article Kimmy linked a few pages back is relevant here. The PC-brigade have acquired power while at the same time making out that their views are "morally right" and denying that power. And I don't disagree with everything they stand for - but I don't agree with all of it either. Society needs to be able to debate these issues and agree an approach, not be forced into it by a minority. Because otherwise, as you suggest, the silent majority is going to fight back - and rather than do it rationally and sensibly, we end up with reactions like Trump. Which is even worse.
    I remember when Trump said, "I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose any voters!"...people went nuts! But what he meant was, and he has tapped into it, people were voting against the status quo...Trump just happened to be the guy who had the nuts and the money and the front to do it. That's why I laugh at all this Russia collusion, paying off hookers stuff...nobody who voted for Trump could care less, and if anything, the left is digging their grave even deeper by not trying to find a way back to the centre...

    And before anyone chimes in...yep, plenty of Trump's base are redneck racists, uneducated bigots...but you know what, in a democracy, everyone has a vote baby...you'd better look for some middle ground.

  10. #140

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    Quote Originally Posted by SpeakCantonese:
    People getting hired for their gender or race over white men is offensive to any normal white man too.

    Keep pushing and this shit is going to bite back hard...mark my words, Trump is just the beginning...what a nightmare.
    First of all, that's a perception which isn't necessarily always the reality. It's often used as an excuse for underperforming white males that are not going anywhere.

    Second of all, the opposite has been happening for generations so a little swing back of the pendulum isn't exactly unfair. Call it reparations for pasty sins...

    Third, in America, the white male is fast becoming a minority and Trump won not because of those men but largely because the working class women didn't associate with Clinton nor did the minorities come out in the way they did for Obama. Partly because of the polls, many thought a Trump win was impossible. I'd call it more a last gasp from a dying minority than a trend of years to come. You'd probably put a cardboard poster of the Easter bunny and Trump would lose an election held tomorrow.