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Twelve Angry Men

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  1. #1

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    Lightbulb Twelve Angry Men

    https://fischersoph.files.wordpress....men-script.pdf

    Not sure how many have read/watched this. I enjoyed reading it in junior high, and many years later, watching the film. From what I understand, it’s a bad representation of what should be happening from a legal standpoint (as in, they shouldn’t be adducing their own evidence at all), and they quite possibly reached the wrong verdict even in this fictionalized account.

    Nonetheless, in terms of discussion or debate, internet forums being one venue, it looks like an inspiring way of conducting a conversation to try to discern the truth.

    Do you self-identify with any juror or jurors as represented therein?

    For myself, I mostly identify with jurors 9, 11, 6 and a little bit of 2.
    Juror 9 - Willing to hear out a dissenting opinion
    Juror 11 - Idealizes higher values, prizes decency
    Juror 6 - Honest but dull-witted
    Juror 2 - Meek and easily swayed

    I hope one day to be more like juror 4 - cooly rational and successful.

    What about you?
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  2. #2

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    Hah, this is an interesting post. I've watched the movie 2-3 times, and had recently been thinking about mask arguments on Geo in the context of the characters in the movie.

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  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by jgl:
    Hah, this is an interesting post. I've watched the movie 2-3 times, and had recently been thinking about mask arguments on Geo in the context of this.
    Yeah, I saw the title and thought it was a spoof on the most argumentative posters on here.
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  4. #4

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    I have been accused of being each type. At various points over the last year, I've probably resembled a few of these jurors.

    What I fear is becoming Juror number... guess.

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  5. #5

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    One of the things about the movie was that it involved most jurors being persuaded, one way or another, of changing or at least examining the reasoning behind their beliefs. Unfortunately, this hasn't really been happening on the Internet, where most of us adopt a position out of gut feel, then cherry pick lines of reasoning or data that supports that initial position

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  6. #6

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    I propose a motion for consideration.

    Anyone raising inadmissible evidence for the jury to consider - i.e. any argument about masks - should be immediately removed from the jury room for a period to be determined by the jury chairman (Shri).

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  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by jgl:
    Hah, this is an interesting post. I've watched the movie 2-3 times, and had recently been thinking about mask arguments on Geo in the context of the characters in the movie.
    Some of the various discussions did inspire me to reread it, although the idea has been bouncing in my head for a while.

    Quote Originally Posted by kimwy66:
    Yeah, I saw the title and thought it was a spoof on the most argumentative posters on here.
    For the avoidance of doubt, the topic wasn’t aimed at anyone. I also think everyone has been pretty indulgent of my foibles and the times I get it wrong, for which I’m immensely grateful.

    Quote Originally Posted by shri:
    I have been accused of being each type. At various points over the last year, I've probably resembled a few of these jurors.

    What I fear is becoming Juror number... guess.
    Well that’s interesting. I can imagine a number of us have sorely tried your patience at some point. Juror 12? Disengaged?

    Quote Originally Posted by jgl:
    One of the things about the movie was that it involved most jurors being persuaded, one way or another, of changing or at least examining the reasoning behind their beliefs. Unfortunately, this hasn't really been happening on the Internet, where most of us adopt a position out of gut feel, then cherry pick lines of reasoning or data that supports that initial position
    That definitely happens, which is why I thought the script was inspiring, in that people could, with greater or lesser difficulty, be persuaded to change their minds. A mere discussion tends to lack the same stakes though, plus it’s true you tend to argue your own end. For me, I think it’s important to consider the viewpoints or standpoints of the other side. Not having excellent judgment means not always being able to discern things correctly and have a high degree of confidence, but to balance that, at least you’re (hopefully) a bit more open to evidence from the other side. It tends mostly to rehashing your own viewpoints where the masks thing is concerned though. The utility of that discussion may have expired a while ago, although we do get to hear (of the same) views from different people.

    Quote Originally Posted by hullexile:
    I propose a motion for consideration.

    Anyone raising inadmissible evidence for the jury to consider - i.e. any argument about masks - should be immediately removed from the jury room for a period to be determined by the jury chairman (Shri).
    I second the motion.
    Last edited by AsianXpat0; 23-03-2020 at 01:46 PM.
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  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by AsianXpat0:
    Some of the various discussions did inspire me to reread it, although the idea has been bouncing in my head for a while.
    It's never even occurred to me to read the script, doesn't it lose a lot of impact in text form? I thought the acting in the movie was really good, really enjoyed how it was black and white, and essentially took place in a single set.
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  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by jgl:
    It's never even occurred to me to read the script, doesn't it lose a lot of impact in text form? I thought the acting in the movie was really good, really enjoyed how it was black and white, and essentially took place in a single set.
    Well I read it first before seeing it, and immensely enjoyed both, but I suppose it’s possible you may not feel the same way the other way round. Certainly I didn’t enjoy Watchmen the movie as much as the graphic novel, and a few others, so possibly sometimes it depends where you started off.
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  10. #10

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    In context re the current situation, significant numbers of grumpy old expats are quite defiant in the face of any evidence placed before them. They would be the 4 hanging out in the bar, not wearing masks and not maintaining social distance either. Good luck arguing with them.

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