View Poll Results: What are these joint exercises meant to be?

Voters
11. You may not vote on this poll
  • These military exercises are meant as a show of force for the DPRK (No. Koreans)

    1 9.09%
  • These military exercises are meant as a show of force for the PRC

    3 27.27%
  • These military exercises are meant to bolster the confidence of US allies in the region

    0 0%
  • These military exercises are meant to impress neighbouring countries

    0 0%
  • These military exercises are routine training games which will take place in international waters

    1 9.09%
  • These exercises are an opportunity for the US Navy to map submarine channels in the Yellow Sea

    0 0%
  • All of the above

    6 54.55%
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U.S.-So Korean military exercises in Yellow Sea

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  1. #11

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    Well there's necessity and there's frivolity...

    I have no issue with a family of four owning a Honda Accord to drive around. That's closer to necessity however the single guy driving the Hummer or the Ferrari... That's frivolity.

    I'd put these military exercises somewhere in the middle but leaning towards the frivolous


  2. #12

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    Shrugs shoulders in regard to you Boris, if you can't accept other peoples points of view, that's fine, no need for personal insults though... I respect that you are entitled to your opinion, however.

    I agree with Giles's reply though.

    Last edited by Skyhook; 21-07-2010 at 02:45 PM.

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by gilleshk:
    At this point, it's unthinkable for the US to be completely removed from East Asia.

    There needs to be something to counterbalance China's power and influence and there's only one country capable of that at the moment. However it would be helpful to have Japan remove article 9 from its constitution.

    As to US influence... first american business interest in Asia are far and wide and second, a loss of influence from the US would mean a gain from China which is arguably the US greatest threat in years to come. Would you let your biggest adversary gain in power? Why did the US waste so much in Vietnam? It's certainly not because of its limitless resources nor was it out of the goodness of heart.

    It's a game of poker between a handful of players, the rest of the countries are just cards...
    I agree with much of that, but:

    1.) you imply that if the US left Asia, "US businesses" would somehow suffer? Why? Earlier you had implied it was because the US feared losing influence. "US business interests" only makes sense if you think the 'other power' would operate on a nationalistic/agressive basis a la the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere.

    2.) to be honest, I think there is a lot you know about the Vietnam War. I don't want to take issue with you or discuss its moralilty, etc., although the issues were much more complex than you are implying. But let me ask you this: why the hell was the US fighting in Vietnam anyway? It certainly wasn't for the great business opportunities.

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Football16:
    I just voted all of the above but I'd have left out show of force to the Chinese as a prime reason. I think the main reason was to show the North they are serious. Americans need to punish countries and this is the best they can do here.

    Freetrader provides the most typical American thinking on issues like this and his views would be very mainstream American thought.

    Americans will never be able to see things through the eyes of even a major trading partner like China. It is their make up. They have a better chance of seeing things through others eyes if they are just like them - Caucasians - even the Russians. When it comes to the Chinese they are lost as to how best to work with them and how they should let China take the lead on North Korea as it is clearly more of a direct threat to China if there is a war there.
    Gee Football, you come off here as rather naive and ill-informed.

    1.) Are you suggesting that Korea, Japan, etc., etc., DON'T want the US in Asia, or don't think the exercises are a good idea?

    2.) You say 'let China handle North Korea'...mmm...China has done nothing to restratin North Korea for the past 60 years? Why are they suddenly going to get on the ball now?

    3.) You imply that the US doesn't know how to 'trade' with China. WTF? I don't think there is any question about the immense size of the US/China trade relationship. In fact the US should get a lot of credit for being a big part of the engine that is helping to develop the Chinese economy - not, of course (pace Gilly) for idealistic reasons, but because both sides have benefitted immensely.

    Saying that something is "mainstream American thought" and intending it as an insult is not an argument. On of the annoying things about Geoexpat.coom is the prevelance of people who think that simply sneering at the US will win applause. Blinkered anti-Americanism is just as stupid and dangerous as unthinking patriotism.

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Football16:
    I
    For me, the less confrontation with a major trading partner over these issues the better.

    I'd like the USA to re-think how to work in this region and how to work best with China and India for their own future economic good and also to reduce tensions overall.
    Football, this is almost too obvious to state - but what is the 'tension' you refer to between the US and India ? Right, there isn't any.

    Now, why do suppose would there be tension with China and not India? You have implied (in a racist aside) that Americans (including Obama, who is black and who grew up in Indonesia) don't know how to 'deal with' the Chinese because they apparently are some special race that requires delicate handling. Does that mean the Indians are suddenly white?

    Or is it just possible that China and DPRK are dong 'something' to cause the local tension?

  6. #16

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    Ahh I see, so we should just agree with you, when your nation does things to us, that we don't like...

    That's very civil and considerate of you, Freetrader, and you wonder why it might upset a few of us. PMSL.

    And I am about as western looking as you'll find, but I don't support your rhetoric, sport. Go and preach your smiley faced GEOPOLITICS someplace that gives a flying wombat about it. .

    Tough titties, that even other western nationalities, find your nation a bit on the nose....as they say.

    Last edited by Skyhook; 21-07-2010 at 03:43 PM.

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyhook:
    Ahh I see, so we should just agree with you, when your nation does things to us, that we don't like...

    That's very civil and considerate of you, Freetrader, and what upsets many of us.
    Who is this "us" Skyhook, that the US is being so terrible to?

    Japan, ROK, no? You mean China? So, what has the US done to China, except buy a lot of their low-end products and made them wealthier?

    What you really mean, is that East Asia is China's neighborhood, and nobody else is allowed in the playground, despite what the democratically elected governments in Japan, RO Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, etc., etc., say.

    Yes, how terrible of the US to support its friends in the region.

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by HongKongFoot:
    The military excercises on both sides are the equivalent to dick measuring or a pissing contest regardless of who is conducting them. China just did theirs a few days ago, ahead of the US Joint Korean excercises.

    Totally retarded in my book. Does nothing but piss each other off.
    Until one day, one of them sticks their little member where it shouldn't fit, and we all suffer as a result.

    Do you honestly think USA has the ability to take on China in a war lmfao.

    You can't even beat a primitive unorganised nation like IRAQ, but you think you can fight China.

    Maybe you should, and see what it costs you, you couldnt be possibly that stupid a nation, to even undertake a M A D scenario.

    Because that is the reality, you keep pushing and prodding, you will lose much more than your little Richards.. The rest of the world can look forward to a nuclear winter, because Americans like to wave their Richards around.

    Law of averages, pick enough fights, one day you will lose, and when the USA loses, we all lose....
    Last edited by Skyhook; 21-07-2010 at 03:58 PM.

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freetrader:

    2.) You say 'let China handle North Korea'...mmm...China has done nothing to restratin North Korea for the past 60 years? Why are they suddenly going to get on the ball now?
    Do tell us exactly what the North Koreans have done outside of their own country that is so terrible for the last 50 years?

    China does have NK on a leash and they wouldn't dare do too much without China's approval.

    As for China and the US, it's definitely all about self interest. Cheap labor for american businesses and an access to a billion people market. The Chinese also enjoy having the US market with its large purchasing power and of course the invested american money. Let's not forget how much money the Chinese have in US bonds. Neither of them can afford a big split at the moment.
    Last edited by gilleshk; 21-07-2010 at 03:56 PM.

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by HongKongFoot:
    The military excercises on both sides are the equivalent to dick measuring or a pissing contest regardless of who is conducting them. China just did theirs a few days ago, ahead of the US Joint Korean excercises.

    Totally retarded in my book. Does nothing but piss each other off.

    As someone who is probably the MOST qualified to comment on all of this. Served 25yrs, Minesweeper, Destroyer, Cruiser, Commando Heli Carrier, Fixed Wing Carrier and Submarine. 2 Commander in Chief Staff jobs and a NATO job.

    Joint exercises are necessary between allies. If the shit hits the fan in Taiwan, Japan, Korea etc etc why you gonna call ? It ain't ghostbusters its the US through the UN because no country on earth has the ability to respond as well as them.

    FYI - They have fleets of Merchant ships pre positioned worldwide full of division status equipment. From tanks to rifles just to be there to save YOUR arse.

    Why are exercises requested ( this is an important word to understand ) by ( another important word ) allies? Because when it kicks of for real you have to have all your teams understanding the different protocols and testing equipment interoperability.

    FYI _ Just one seeming simple problem - FUEL - The US navy diesel standard is JP5 which is a high BTU rated fuel than most countries Marine Gas Oil or Marine Diesel ( not the same thing ). You have to change engine settings and look after pump seals. There are lots of signal and frequency / code issues etc etc.

    The point is .... to all you sissy civilians worrying about your IPhone and if anyone wants a meet for drinks in LKF, there is some serious shit going on behind your mundane everyday lives to let you do this stuff. Exercises are expensive and not undertaken for just pissing in the wind. Stick to discussing IPhone Apps and leave world peace to those who actually care to sign up and do something about it not just winge on about something you obviously all don't understand.

    FYI _ Politicians cause wars. YOUR armed forces endeavors to save you from their follies.
    Freetrader and bookblogger like this.