detention of artist Ai Weiwei

[dipper]

Maybe I have missed something but as far as I am aware none of us are speaking as representatives of the US government. For myself, I am not even American. We are individual human moral agents calling things as we see them.

I have no difficulty in unequivocally and unreservedly condemning the human rights abuses at Guantanamo Bay. Why do you find it so difficult to do the same regarding the human rights abuses of the Chinese Communist Party?

I would not and have not argued that nobody can criticise the human rights abuses of the US Government (or anywhere else) because there are other countries that are as bad or worse. Why do you seek to do this for the CCP?

As you quite rightly say:

Wrongs are wrongs

So is the imprisonment, maltreatment and torture of dissidents in China by the Chinese Communist Party unreservedly and unequivocally wrong or not?

[Freetrader]

First of all, Football, this is irrelevant.

Secondly, KSM has admitted - bragged even - about i.) planning 9/11 and ii.) sawing the head off of Michael Pearl on video. Is THAT who you really want to compare with Ai Weiwei? KSM - that poor guy!

I appreciate the moral conundrum KSM creates due to his possibly innappropriate treatment. He may, in fact, have been tortured. But, he is very clearly looking forward to becoming a martyr and is just fine at the murder of thousands of innoncents, muslims among them, in order to achieve it. I fail to detect any outrage from you about the thousands who are tortured every day in the PRC. Try and gain a little perspective.

[Freetrader]

Are you sure they were all captured in arms on the battlefield, I see no evidence for that. One was imprisoned without charge for making a video celebrating an attack on a US ship. Even enemy combatants are still entitled to the rule of law. It is not a ridiculous line of discussion. We must criticise all or none in my view. As I criticised internment without charge in the UK (and gained a UK gov't file as a dissident in the process).

Fine, Hull. Criticize all or none - I certainly have no problem critizing the US on any numbers of occasions. But I don't use the actions of the US to justify the unjustifiable. If you want to criticize the US, be my guest - start a thread and I will gladly particiipate. This thread is about Ai Weiwei. You either approve of the treatment he is receiving or you don't. If you don't, we have NO ARGUMENT. If you do, citing US actions you don't like is not necessary.

[bookblogger]

I think you guys are missing the points that Football16 is making.

With respect, I think you are also missing the point that there is an inexcusable evil taking place just across the border from where we live, and it must be condemned. Comparing it to other evils in the present or past merely serves to muddy the waters, and of course this tactic is used all the time for exactly this purpose.

As for Chinese "laws", I think people would respect them if the Chinese government was itself subject to them; unfortunately it isn't, and it breaks them constantly and with impunity. See how Liu Xioabo was jailed for 10 years for non-violent protest, despite the Chinese constitution "guaranteeing" freedom of speech.

[hullexile]

Fine, Hull. Criticize all or none - I certainly have no problem critizing the US on any numbers of occasions. But I don't use the actions of the US to justify the unjustifiable. If you want to criticize the US, be my guest - start a thread and I will gladly particiipate. This thread is about Ai Weiwei. You either approve of the treatment he is receiving or you don't. If you don't, we have NO ARGUMENT. If you do, citing US actions you don't like is not necessary.

I have clearly said I don't approve in previous posts. I was just picking up on the point made by someone else that the rest of the world lives by the rule of law. It doesn't. As I have said before I was someone who put themselves at risk (as well as police harrassment add bricks through my windows, death threats to me and my family) to defend human rights. How we used to ridicule the armchair protesters, now I have become one, such is getting old.

[squid]

Yes let's be indignant and angry at the PRC

I'm not angry at the "PRC". I'm disgusted by the freaks who are so weak that they can't let the Chinese people speak out without taking it as a personal slight.

[virago]

Wow, that's a real dig there! Using the middle finger too! Must get alot more dexterity out of that or with an exceptionally good digging tool!

[bryant.english]

Of course Ai Weiwei might actually be a criminal.....but that would not suit the line taken by Western media now would it?
Sounds harder to buy when he's described as the 'pro-democracy artist Ai Weiwei' as opposed to 'white collar criminal, Ai Weiwei'
He wasn't arrested, he 'disappeared'
Nobody knows his whereabouts = the press don't know his whereabouts
I regularly do contract work for the European Broadcasting Union and the Beijing Olympics was very interesting for me, I was there for several months. Western reporters deliberately goading police to try to get themselves arrested on camera. BBC showing live footage of the smog in Beijing while we were looking at blue skies!
In the end, news reports suggested that authorities had been 'ordered' to take a softly softly approach to reporters during the Olympics, almost as though the media felt that the Chinese authorities were cheating!!!
I would take it all with a pinch of salt personally.

[virago]

The PRC have now confirmed he is held for 'economic crimes'.

I very much doubt he has done some type of fraud. Have a look at the interview on this thread and he is the softly spoken man and gental as a lamb. I doubt this man is out to rob companies and the PRC Govt. Even is father stood next to Mao in one of the famous military displays in the 50's that assured Weiwei's place in Chinese society. Once you are there you don't need to do anything!

You know the Dali Lama is classed as a criminal by the PRC for the Tibet uprising in 2008. If the Dali Lama is classed as a criminal I don't know what Ai Weiwei would be classed as?

[Dreadnought]

USA: Digging a deeper hole
Administration and Congress entrenching human rights failure on Guantánamo detentions
11 March 2011

It is now almost 3,000 days since Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was arrested in Pakistan and handed over to US custody. From day one the USA had a fully functioning criminal justice system, with independent federal courts, well-resourced, competent and experienced in conducting complex trials, including in terrorism cases.

What about the current administration, which has now been in office for over two years? In November 2009 Attorney General Holder announced that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed and four other “alleged 9/11 conspirators” being held in the US Naval Base at Guantánamo Bay in Cuba after being transferred there from secret CIA custody in 2006 would be brought to the mainland to stand trial in ordinary federal court “before an impartial jury under long-established rules and procedures.”5 The following week, he told the Senate Judiciary Committee that “for eight years, justice has been delayed for the victims of the 9/11 attacks”. “No more delays”, he added. “It is time, it is past time, to act.”6

In a news release issued on 10 March 2011 to announce the introduction of such a bill, for example, Senator Lindsey Graham said: “The administration has badly managed the trial of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed (KSM) and the 9/11 conspirators. KSM should face trial by military commission, not federal district court. Under the Laws of War, he is not entitled to the same constitutional rights as an American citizen.”8

Even if a defendant is acquitted by military commission, the Obama administration, like its predecessor, has reserved the right to continue to hold him indefinitely under the laws of war. In his executive order of 7 March 2011, President Obama reiterates that “continued law of war detention is warranted for a detainee… if it is necessary to protect against a significant threat to the security of the United States”.

F.A.O. Football16:

Forget the title of this video...

Sen. Graham is a former Judge Advocate in the United States Air Force. What part of his position with regards to KSM and, well, bin Laden, if/when he is captured, is flawed?

Also, call me numb, if you will... I am looking for a parallel between this case and that of Ai Weiwei's detention, but I can't find one.

I forgot to add, I have a question, purely out of interest... what do you call such hearings on oversight of the Ministry of Justice in China?