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Bin Laden Found Dead?

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  1. #181

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    Quote Originally Posted by dansande:
    Freetrader, do I correctly understand your position to be that any killing ordered by the President of the United States in the course of a 'military action' is, ipso facto, legal? Do any lawyers care to weigh in on this?
    No, you do not correctly understand me. In my opinion the killing of Bin Laden (based on what we know now - I reserve the right to change my opinion later) comports with the basic rules of law enforcement and the laws of war. If you disagree, please state why.

    We have had about 10 pages of hand wringing without anyone really addressing that issue.

  2. #182

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freetrader:
    However, your last sentence - which is the relevant part of your post - is based on a premise that the killing of Bin Laden was extrajudicial. I disagree, and would be mildly interested in how you would argue the elimination of Bin Laden should have been handled.
    Since you are mildly interested, I will mildly give you my opinion.

    It should have been handled in a similar way Saddam was handled. Same way some of the Nazis were handled. With some amount of restraint with a smidgen of law and due process.

    Capture the guy, put him in front of a judge and jury in any jurisdiction where he comited crimes and then get the guy executed, legally with due process.

    BTW: I would be mildly interested in your opinion as to why Saddam was not executed (like OBL) on the spot.

    HC
    Last edited by HowardCoombs; 04-05-2011 at 03:44 PM.
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  3. #183

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    Quote Originally Posted by HongKongFoot:
    I think you mean Blackwater not Blackrock. Lets not get things mixed up, BW is a private security contractor plain and simple, they are not in BlackBag/WetWork ops.
    What a relief. I knew that Private Equity funds were bad (after all, Rolling Stone says so), but I never realized that they were in the business of assassinating people!

  4. #184

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freetrader:
    No, you do not correctly understand me. In my opinion the killing of Bin Laden (based on what we know now - I reserve the right to change my opinion later) comports with the basic rules of law enforcement and the laws of war. If you disagree, please state why.

    We have had about 10 pages of hand wringing without anyone really addressing that issue.
    Now that I correctly understand your opinion I agree. Thank you for the clarification.
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  5. #185

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    Quote Originally Posted by HowardCoombs:
    Since you are mildly interested, I will mildly give you my opinion.

    It should have been handled in a similar way Saddam was handled. Same way some of the Nazis were handled. With some amount of restraint with a smidgen of law and due process.

    Capture the guy, put him in front of a judge and jury in any jurisdiction where he comited crimes and then get the guy executed, legally with due process.

    BTW: I would be mildly interested in your opinion as to why Saddam was not executed (like OBL) on the spot.

    HC
    Thank you for your mildly interesting reply - which was exactly what I expected.

    Saddam was captured hiding in a hole, he made it very clear he wanted to surrender; he was not in a fortress and defended by armed guards who almost certainly all went down fighting.

    The US attempted decapitiation strikes against Saddam several times during the Gulf Wars. By your logic, those were illegal also.

    Bin Laden had declared war on the US; I can't imagine the president putting American lives at further risk simply to be 'sure' that he didn't want to surrender. War simply isn't like that.

  6. #186

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    Actually, Howard, a good parallel to OBL would be not Saddam, but Saddam's two sons, who also went down fighting in a fortress-like house.


  7. #187

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freetrader:
    Bin Laden had declared war on the US; I can't imagine the president putting American lives at further risk simply to be 'sure' that he didn't want to surrender. War simply isn't like that.
    Freetrader, I respect your position on this but might I add one further ingredient to the mix?

    It seems that you have not differentiated the entities. The UK and USA declared war on Saddam Hussain as the Iraqi leader, in Iraq. The attacks happened in Iraq and Saddam was detained in Iraq.

    The uneasiness in which the USA invaded Afghanistan in the pursuit of Al Qaeda, the Taliban, OBL or the magic egg recently metamorphosed in Pakistan. Pakistan is not at war with the USA (or, for that matter, Al Qaeda or the Taliban), yet it finds its territory the subject of a war.

    You don't think this should make a difference?
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  8. #188

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freetrader:
    Saddam was captured hiding in a hole, he made it very clear he wanted to surrender; he was not in a fortress and defended by armed guards who almost certainly all went down fighting.

    Bin Laden had declared war on the US; I can't imagine the president putting American lives at further risk simply to be 'sure' that he didn't want to surrender. War simply isn't like that.
    So, let me get this straight:
    1) If a person (not a nation, but a person) declares war on the USA [I Howard Coombs, resident of Hong Kong declare war against the Americans occupying the land of the two holy places]

    2) And that person supports others who harm and work toward killing USA citizens [Paypal donation completed]

    3) And that person hides in his home with weapons [My knives are being sharpened in Happy Valley by my helpers as I write this note and I will never surrender]

    You believe that the US government has the legal right to send US soldiers to come and kill me here in lovely Happy Valley, Hong Kong SAR?

    HC
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  9. #189

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    Quote Originally Posted by Freetrader:
    Actually, Howard, a good parallel to OBL would be not Saddam, but Saddam's two sons, who also went down fighting in a fortress-like house.
    The only paralell is that they were all killed witout due process. You believe that their murders were legal and I'm arguing that they were not.

    HC

  10. #190

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    But have you already organised/ordered (not just supported) mass-killings in the USA which have already been carried out?


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