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Troy Davis

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  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by randy1:
    So you just prefer that "we, as a community" have in place a system to "legally kidnap, confine, and torture them" in "cold blood" instead?

    For me its exactly about both deterrent, punishment, and REVENGE.
    Revenge leads no whete, forget revenge.

  2. #32

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    From Steve Bell, The Guardian. You can see the Georgia State Flag - "A man with sword drawn is defending the Constitution, whose principles are wisdom, justice and moderation".

  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by randy1:
    For me its exactly about ... REVENGE.
    Are you saying it is about satisfying your blood-lust. Getting some sort of kick from seeing someone die as in the hang 'em high days or the other public executions.

    Revenge seems a slightly unbalanced guide for dishing out punishment. So someone you like you would not punish as you would not feel the need for revenge while someone you dislike your would punish to get revenge.

    Hopefully the eyes of the law are blind and rehabilitation, punishment and the need to segregate appropriate people from the rest of society is considered when giving out a sentence not just the following the populist blood-lust of the mob.

    In an earlier post you strongly stated the death penalty was a strong deterrent - is there a chart showing this?
    Last edited by East_coast; 23-09-2011 at 08:19 PM.

  4. #34

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    I am not sure why Randy has been given such a rough ride.

    Most western criminal systems are designed punitively - this is so that the offender is punished.

    Most eastern criminal systems are designed for deterrence.

    USA attempts a hybrid which in principle, I have no objection to. I think a well governed society must both punish wrongdoers and deter others from following that wrongdoer.

    If Randy is suggesting a child rapist deserves to be killed, I agree. Not for revenge, but for a mix of 10% punishment and 90% deterrence.

    randy1 likes this.

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by East_coast:
    In an earlier post you strongly stated the death penalty was a strong deterrent - is there a chart showing this?
    East Coast I implore you to seek answers, not charts. Answer this question: would you be more likely to murder someone (assuming you had both the intention to and the propensity to) if the consequence was:

    1. You being killed in return; or
    2. You being locked up in a prison for 15 or so years?

    Forget the charts for one moment. What is your answer?
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  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by luckycat:
    East Coast I implore you to seek answers, not charts. Answer this question: would you be more likely to murder someone (assuming you had both the intention to and the propensity to) if the consequence was:

    1. You being killed in return; or
    2. You being locked up in a prison for 15 or so years?

    Forget the charts for one moment. What is your answer?
    It seems hard to believe that anyone who is in a mental state that carrying out a pre-meditated murder is the best thing to do is capable of rationalising the consequences in terms of the punishment if they get caught.
    drumbrake and MovingIn07 like this.

  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by luckycat:
    a mix of 10% punishment and 90% deterrence
    Have you read this weeks economist?

    Moral philosophy: Goodness has nothing to do with it | The Economist
    MovingIn07 likes this.

  8. #38

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    No I haven't.

    I have now.

    I don't follow you. Are you suggesting:

    1. that quote is utilitarian; or
    2. that you are a utilitarian?


  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by luckycat:
    2. that you are a utilitarian?
    If the statistic that a punishments benefit to society is a mix of 10% punishment and 90% deterrence it is a very utilitarian way of looking at it.

    I suspect different crimes, in different societies with different punishments gets lots of different results for society.

    I still have not seen an evidence that state sponsored killing of offenders of serious/terrible crimes actually does deter others from committing similar crimes.

    Perhaps in societies that are generally lawless it may.

  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by luckycat:

    2. You being locked up in a prison for 15 or so years?
    LC, I would suggest that premeditated murder would earn you at least double that in most jurisdictions.

    I would say that 30 years in prison or 20 years followed by the death penalty both seem completely unreal and odd. I think most people who commit these kind of offences either expect to get away with it or don't really give a shit at the time of the offence.

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