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Guns in the US

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  1. #1

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    Guns in the US

    I have just about given up on this whole gun debate. The below link is the latest in the insanity of some americans and their love of guns.
    Glad my kids dont do to school there and if they did I would move out.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-21722377

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  2. #2

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    cant wait for the first 'sentinel' to leave gun somewhere when they nip to loo an come back to cowboys an indians


  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by scrambler:
    cant wait for the first 'sentinel' to leave gun somewhere when they nip to loo an come back to cowboys an indians
    A bit late for that as it that has already happened in another state school. The armed security guard left his rod in the bathroom after emptying his bladder.

    http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013...cials-say?lite

    What I find odd is that they say his rod was "unloaded." If that were true then if the Sandy Hook shooter armed with an assault weapon would have that guy dead so fast he'd not have to time to load it.

    What these guys don't seem to comprehend is what exactly is happening in a shoot out situation. If the person thinks the teachers are armed then guess what - they'll be shot on sight.

    NRA wants more guns sold - this is working. But armed guards at schools unless equipped with assault rifles won't solve the problem. But imagine in a school a shoot out with all sides with assault rifles.

    Even armed police are shot because they are not prepared and don't reach situations correctly. A teacher with a gun is insane. I have known guys in shoot outs and those were .38s vs. .38s - not even .357 or .45 as they were matched by police. But the LA shootout with the bank robbers vs the assault weapons is what a teacher with a hand gun would be up against. It is just insane.

    This video doesn't show how bad it was:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVeb_zZdliw
    Last edited by Football16; 09-03-2013 at 02:20 PM.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trance Omega:
    I have just about given up on this whole gun debate. The below link is the latest in the insanity of some americans and their love of guns.
    Glad my kids dont do to school there and if they did I would move out.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-21722377

    Lumping all of America into one category makes about as much sense as lumping all Europe into one category. Just because something goes on in Albania or Cyprus, doesn't mean I expect it to happen everywhere in Europe. And yes I know that the United States is a country, but it is a republic where most rights and laws rest with the individual states, counties or cities. That in my opinion is the beauty of the US, there are vast differences from state to state...including laws and regulations.


    The downside, I guess, is that people can always site examples from certain states (usually the 'hick or hillbilly' states like Mississippi or in this case South Dakota, and than try to label the entire US with it. The entire state of South Dakota has less than 1 million people.

    So when you say you are glad your kids don't go there, I am hoping you mean that particular school or South Dakota in general and not all of the US...
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  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Football16:
    A bit late for that as it that has already happened in another state school. The armed security guard left his rod in the bathroom after emptying his bladder.

    http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013...cials-say?lite

    What I find odd is that they say his rod was "unloaded." If that were true then if the Sandy Hook shooter armed with an assault weapon would have that guy dead so fast he'd not have to time to load it.



    What these guys don't seem to comprehend is what exactly is happening in a shoot out situation. If the person thinks the teachers are armed then guess what - they'll be shot on sight.

    NRA wants more guns sold - this is working. But armed guards at schools unless equipped with assault rifles won't solve the problem. But imagine in a school a shoot out with all sides with assault rifles.

    Even armed police are shot because they are not prepared and don't reach situations correctly. A teacher with a gun is insane. I have known guys in shoot outs and those were .38s vs. .38s - not even .357 or .45 as they were matched by police. But the LA shootout with the bank robbers vs the assault weapons is what a teacher with a hand gun would be up against. It is just insane.

    This video doesn't show how bad it was:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVeb_zZdliw

    Huh? I am against teachers carrying guns, but I'm not following your argument.

    Teachers should not carry guns at all, but an assault rifle is certainly not needed. In a school situation, against a lone gunmen or two, an assault rifle would be no more effective against a shooter anyway and is more likely to result in collateral damage. The only time an assault rifle becomes more effective is against large groups of people which is rarely/never the case with school shootings.

  6. #6

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    Original Post Deleted

    Gun laws vary dramatically throughout the US.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/30/us...anted=all&_r=0
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  7. #7

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    Used to be two places: DC and Chicago. Then it was ruled unconstitutional. The ruling was obviously legally correct, but less obviously, it seems to have been pragmatically correct. Gun violence greatly increased in those cities well over the national average for urban areas during their bans
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  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by closedcasket:
    Huh? I am against teachers carrying guns, but I'm not following your argument.

    Teachers should not carry guns at all, but an assault rifle is certainly not needed. In a school situation, against a lone gunmen or two, an assault rifle would be no more effective against a shooter anyway and is more likely to result in collateral damage. The only time an assault rifle becomes more effective is against large groups of people which is rarely/never the case with school shootings.
    Actually I wasn't really trying to make a cogent argument - just dumping out some stories and video on the LA shootout to show that an armed guard or teacher if faced with the weaponry of an assault rifle will lose every time.

    Secondly if the gunman believes the teacher to have a gun - he'll gun the teacher down on sight (like he will the armed guard) before the teacher gets it out of the locked up desk and possibly if it is stored safely in another locked box. Or, are they going to walk around with it holstered?

    My point is this. How can a gun be safely with a teacher unless is locked down and a teacher rushing to deal with an emergency doesn't leave it unattended? They could only do this if the gun was on them - holstered. IF it is all locked up and very, very safe - then it won't be ready if the gunman arrives during the lesson. Then there is the other issue. How safe is it locked up and does it go home at night? Insane number of issues when it'd be simpler to ban assault rifles.

    I think the more guns in schools will lead to more young gunmen going to schools.
    Columbine had armed guards - but the two shooters had no trouble going on a rampage.

    The LA video wasn't quite the one I was looking for where or that angle was the issue - but one incident I recall in LA had the officers pinned down with hand guns vs assault weapons and there was no competition. I was hoping to find that to illustrate the idiocy of thinking you can take a hand gun up against these assault weapons.

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Football16:
    Actually I wasn't really trying to make a cogent argument - just dumping out some stories and video on the LA shootout to show that an armed guard or teacher if faced with the weaponry of an assault rifle will lose every time.

    Secondly if the gunman believes the teacher to have a gun - he'll gun the teacher down on sight (like he will the armed guard) before the teacher gets it out of the locked up desk and possibly if it is stored safely in another locked box. Or, are they going to walk around with it holstered?

    My point is this. How can a gun be safely with a teacher unless is locked down and a teacher rushing to deal with an emergency doesn't leave it unattended? They could only do this if the gun was on them - holstered. IF it is all locked up and very, very safe - then it won't be ready if the gunman arrives during the lesson. Then there is the other issue. How safe is it locked up and does it go home at night? Insane number of issues when it'd be simpler to ban assault rifles.

    I think the more guns in schools will lead to more young gunmen going to schools.
    Columbine had armed guards - but the two shooters had no trouble going on a rampage.

    The LA video wasn't quite the one I was looking for where or that angle was the issue - but one incident I recall in LA had the officers pinned down with hand guns vs assault weapons and there was no competition. I was hoping to find that to illustrate the idiocy of thinking you can take a hand gun up against these assault weapons.

    OK, agree. Guns in school is not the answer. I lived in LA during the N. Hollywood shoot out you speak of. It was straight out of the movies. The bank robbers had armor piercing shells and they were heavily armored themself. Their bullets tore right through the Kevlar vests of the police. This was believed to be there 3rd robbery. The guys were very well trained.

    Handguns (this includes automatic and semiautomatic) are not always inferior weapons to assault rifles, it depends on the situation. In the situation of school shootings, a handgun would be preferable to an assault rifle for many reasons.

    School shooters are not as heavily armed, armored, and well trained as the Hollywood bank robbers.
    Last edited by closedcasket; 09-03-2013 at 04:27 PM.
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  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by closedcasket:
    School shooters are not as heavily armed, armored, and well trained as the Hollywood bank robbers.
    Nor are teachers...That's the biggest problem in the US vs a place like Switzerland. In the US, it's easier to get a gun than a driver's license so you have thousands of people holding firearms with minimal training on how to use them. A perfect recipe for the disasters we see again and again and again and again...

    I think a realistic more immediate goal for americans isn't to ban weapons, it's just not going to happen. It's to ensure that people are better educated and having effective checks and balances before idiots get to play with their toys.
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