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Soldier beheaded in Woolwich, UK. Sickening.

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  1. #281
    ouwen
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    So I have been contradicted by a United States Politician. Shame on me. Everyone knows that United States politicians are at the pinacle of honesty, right up there next to God and the angels.

    And what do you make of all the speeches Bush made saying that we do not blame the muslim religion or those that practice that religion?

    Dear God, My name is ahmed. I am a muslim living in (Iraq, Afghan.. viet nam etc). Western agents have overthown my government, and installed a cruel dictator that buys weapons from them. They give him "foreign aid" to help me and my family, but the dictator puts it all in his bank account in switzerland. My father stood against the dictator and demanded the return of the elected president. My father has disappeared, as have my uncles. We are hungry. I had to quit school and rummage for food. The people rose against the dictator, so he strafed, bombed and gassed them with the weapons from the western country.

    I have no options left in life but to join the militant organization and participate in terrorism. At least they will feed me. I will have to kill people, and I will be killed for doing that. I must violate my beliefs and the laws of my religion by killing people I don't even know. Please forgive me and let me into heaven. God is great. Praise Allah. Please understand that I do this in your name to help my people. God is great, praise allah. Death to the ............whatever....

    And I agree that Christian holy wars have killed many more people than terrorism, but if you want to stretch the definition of terrorism to include dinosaur fights, allow me to include my definition.

    *******terrorism is acts of war directed at civilians/non combattants*************

    What is bombing Bagdad while Saddam and lieutenants are safely tucked away in 3 meter thick
    bunkers, while women and children huddle in small houses?

    What is helicopter gun ship strafing Viet Nam villages? What is carpet bombing the Viet Nam countryside?

    What is dropping experimental munitions (napalm) on a Brittany France village, while the few remaining German soldiers have already laid down their weapons awaiting capture by the allied advance?

  2. #282

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    Quote Originally Posted by INXS:
    Actually, I used to hold similar views to you.

    The reason I used to argue against the atheists on this forum is that I've always considered my self to be a Christian in as much as being part of the Christian/Protestant culture. I do admit that I probably haven't believed in God since I was maybe 10. I also admit that my reasons for arguing with people like Rev. Jay and PDLM on here were pretty crap too. Basically, I'd never bothered, needed or wanted to look deeper into humanist/atheist thinking and so for me is was like, my Grandmother is a Christian, are you calling my Grandmother an idiot? Shitty, childish reason to argue really.

    Unfortunately, the more you research, and it can be quite addictive and many great minds have put their intellects to writing about atheism, the more difficult it is to even be in the same space as someone who is religious. I actually find it unnerving and odd now when I'm at one school where they pray every morning....it feels completely weird and uncomfortable. It's making me feel even more horrible because I feel like I should be stopping them from feeding the garbage to the kids. As usual they teach them all the most ridiculous stories, Noah's Ark, Garden of Eden, Parting of the Red Sea....it's horrible....but you know what? They are all nice people, seriously, nice, nice, happy clappy nice.

    I think I would find it difficult now to be friends with someone who was religious and lately I have brought it up early when I've met people.
    Cos you ask people before becoming friends if they are religious? Oh dear.

    I have friends that are religious, friends that aren't, and religion is never a subject we talk about anyway. It is their beliefs and as long as they keep it for themselves or share it in a decent manner, I really don't see why I should stop to be friend with them or try to convince them they are wrong.

  3. #283

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    Some might call that racist.
    They'd be idiots....Islam is not a race....it's a system of belief.

  4. #284

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mat:
    It is their beliefs and as long as they keep it for themselves or share it in a decent manner
    Mat, I'm just curious....what is your view?

    You have a Christian friend, they are teaching their kids that there is an invisible man in the sky and if you believe in his dead son, you'll go to heaven when you die....if you don't you'll go to hell and burn and be tortured for ever and ever but he loves you, he loves you so much......

    That's cool with you?

  5. #285

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    Quote Originally Posted by INXS:
    Mat, I'm just curious....what is your view?

    You have a Christian friend, they are teaching their kids that there is an invisible man in the sky and if you believe in his dead son, you'll go to heaven when you die....if you don't you'll go to hell and burn and be tortured for ever and ever but he loves you, he loves you so much......

    That's cool with you?
    I don't have friends that teach that way or that i am aware of.
    I only have friends that bring their kids once a week or so to church or temple or mosque.

    Why do you have to take the most absurd part of religion to make a point?

    Many people that go to church go there to reflect on themselves, they don't go there because they truly believe Jesus can turn wine into water.......
    INXS likes this.

  6. #286

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    I don't have friends that teach that way or that i am aware of.
    I only have friends that bring their kids once a week or so to church or temple or mosque.
    So they wouldn't be your friends if they went, say, twice a week?

    Why do you have to take the most absurd part of religion to make a point?
    Point me to the bit that isn't absurd.

    Many people that go to church go there to reflect on themselves, they don't go there because they truly believe Jesus can turn wine into water.......
    So they're not religious?

    With respect Mat, I would say your friends are on the fringe!


    So they leave the job of indoctrination to the Priest, who presumably does believe that Jesus turned water into wine, maybe...

    From one extreme to another eh Mat...lol


  7. #287

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    Quote Originally Posted by INXS:
    They'd be idiots....Islam is not a race....it's a system of belief.
    Under your own subjective and convenient view of what race is, maybe. Race is much more than the color skin you have. For further reading (now that you like to read) check out some United Nations conventions on the matter.

    Even if you were correct (which you are not), not being racist doesn't mean you're not being grossly offensive to a certain set of people. Reflect on that.

    Please answer my questions.

  8. #288

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    Under your own subjective and convenient view of what race is, maybe. Race is much more than the color skin you have. For further reading (more that you like to read) check out sine United Nations conventions on the matter.
    I have read the United Nation's ever expanding definition of race and I reject it as do many.

    Race is something you're born into, your genes. You can't change it. You can't take it up in your teens or when you're at college....you can't grow out of it or be an extremist or a moderate. You don't need men in funny hats to bother you every weekend in case the illusion evaporates.

    Make a new term - 'religionist' maybe. I'll put my hand up to that.

    Even if you were correct (which you are not), not being racist doesn't mean you're not being grossly offensive to a certain set of people.
    I'm taking the piss out of people who follow religion, in this case you've chosen to spotlight, Islam. People who follow Islam come from many different races and are more than just their religion. If they choose to make that religion their core identity it's their choice. I enjoy tracking weather as a hobby, I won't get offended if you insult it.. No amateur meteorologists I know of are killing people in the name of amateur meteorology. I give amateur meteorology higher status than Islam or any religion because it is evidence based science.

    Religious people....well....their beliefs are grossly offensive to me....reflect on that.
    Gruntfuttock likes this.

  9. #289

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    Quote Originally Posted by INXS:
    I have read the United Nation's ever expanding definition of race and I reject it as do many.

    Race is something you're born into, your genes. You can't change it. You can't take it up in your teens or when you're at college....you can't grow out of it or be an extremist or a moderate. You don't need men in funny hats to bother you every weekend in case the illusion evaporates.

    Make a new term - 'religionist' maybe. I'll put my hand up to that.



    I'm taking the piss out of people who follow religion, in this case you've chosen to spotlight, Islam. People who follow Islam come from many different races and are more than just their religion. If they choose to make that religion their core identity it's their choice. I enjoy tracking weather as a hobby, I won't get offended if you insult it.. No amateur meteorologists I know of are killing people in the name of amateur meteorology. I give amateur meteorology higher status than Islam or any religion because it is evidence based science.

    Religious people....well....their beliefs are grossly offensive to me....reflect on that.
    Not only is your response absurd, you didn't even answer my questions. Have another look and try again.

  10. #290

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    Quote Originally Posted by iliketurtles:
    Not only is your response absurd, you didn't even answer my questions. Have another look and try again.
    You obviously are incapable of rational thought iliketurtles and I don't want to spend my Saturday banging my head against a brick wall.

    Have a nice day.

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