Can Obama beat McCain?

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  1. #101

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    Gilleshk what would you propose then? No system is perfect primarily because they are run by humans and human nature is well, not all that is it?

    Maybe China has it right after all.

    I am a complete novice however when it comes to how the poor in China are treated and looked after but am curious to know from anyone who can tell me, is the divide between rich and poor as obscene in China as it is in the US?
    (this is a serious question, i'm not looking to be funny or ironic)


  2. #102

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    democracy

    I am not saying that democracy is bad, far from it. I am simply saying that the US version is far from being a model. There needs to be more than two parties, the campaigns have to be severely shortened, spending curtailed and excesses kept under control.

    The beauty of the system though is linked to a free press and freedom of expression. At the very least, we are aware of these problems and if they are pointed out to the population then perhaps something can be done about it.

    The tragedy is that power feeds power and it's not in the interest of the people in power to make changes that may not benefit them. Let's not kid ourselves, politics is not about serving the people but about winning. The psyche today tends to lean towards win at all cost and breaking the rule is OK as long as you don't get caught.


  3. #103

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    I agree. And it does seem a tragedy that often the person who gets furtherest is simply the best fundraiser. Money shouldn't play a part in the democratic process.


  4. #104

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    ''You want the world to vote? Sort of like the UN? Let's list all the UN's successes in preventing wars/genocides, etc.... How about ending poverty or stopping disease? Allowing the world to vote is cover for doing nothing.''

    sleuth , for you obvious misplaced love of American style democracy 'Allowing the world to vote is cover for doing nothing' ..so the world doesn't get a vote?.Sounds like a dictator ship to me.

    As you bring up the UN being useless at preventing and poverty abuse of human rights etc. A resolution was passed which declared that

    "education, work, health care, proper nourishment, national development are human rights".

    The resolution was approved by a vote of 135-1.
    Guess who passes the no vote ? Yep u guessed it the leader of the free world The United States.

    Many of the mujahdeen fighters who fought the russians are now fighting the US occupation. They are using the same bases and infastructure the mujahadeden set up in the 80s with help from the Americans.

    Saddam was trained and funded by the us. The US taught him military tatics and advised on building his deep underground command and control bunkers to keep him safe from the iran. You seem to say you funded him on and off so it doest count. .the fact is the US did it.

    As for bin laden and the taleban you reap what you sow.It was the USA which collaborated with Pakistan in creating the Taliban militia to fight against the Russians. The US ignored terrorism until 9/11. as late as 2001 the US gave the taleban 43million to support it regime. Taleban also held talks with the US and an international energy company that wanted to construct a gas pipeline from Turkmenistan across Afghanistan to Pakistan. So much for not negotiating with terrorists.


  5. #105

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    And on and on we go, round and round in circles. What is the point? Sleuth's arguments are equally as valid as yours Worldsgreatest, or anyone else's. One can find statistics and numbers to support any claim and there's always another way to spin an argument in your favour. Likewise, pick a time that suits your argument, an era and sure you've got something to back up an otherwise tenuous claim but it doesn't reflect the nature of a changing world, economies going up and down, enemies who become friends, friends who become enemies. Countries and governments just like people have a right to change their mind and allegiances.

    I'm not sure what people want from any country let alone one (the US) where people believe in their inalienable right to have everything they want right now. Leaders end up doing whatever it takes to protect the interests of its people, (to get re-elected). Often their interests will be aligned with those of other countries (see the list of nations who supported the Iraq war) but like some one else said earlier, you're also bound to piss someone off.

    Maybe Obama will in fact turn out to be the Messiah and will right every wrong in the world... I'd be happy to be proven wrong about him.


  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by aussiegal:
    I agree. And it does seem a tragedy that often the person who gets furtherest is simply the best fundraiser. Money shouldn't play a part in the democratic process.
    Money isn't quite the tell all factor people will have you think...Ron Paul had all the cash in the world and was very intelligent and got nowhere. Also Hillary has had massive cash troubles. It's more popularity that results in one getting money - and the media is a large part of generating that popularity. Ron Paul was able to use the internet to get lots of cash along with Howard Dean back in 2004...the internet is really becoming almost as important as TV in the beginning stages of a campaign.


    Lots of campaign spending is not really harming that much. I mean if you reduced it that would be great but the money is going to american corporations (and maybe foreign ones...that McCain poster might be made in China) - not down a black hole.
    Last edited by meiguoren; 24-05-2008 at 02:58 PM.

  7. #107

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    Quote Originally Posted by meiguoren:

    Lots of campaign spending is not really harming that much. I mean if you reduced it that would be great but the money is going to american corporations (and maybe foreign ones...that McCain poster might be made in China) - not down a black hole.
    I agree with you - mostly. I'd love to know how much family and friends get paid to help out on the campaign of their loved ones. Not that that doesn't happen after they get elected to it.

  8. #108

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    Money

    No harm? Sure you can argue that the money funds an industry and create jobs. But the flipside is that with these vast sums of money come debts and favors to be repaid.


  9. #109

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    What is the alternative then? How do we learn more about those running?


  10. #110

    i dont think sleuths assertion that US has the right to lead the world is a valid one and that the democracy there is model for people to follow.

    To find out about the candidates, i guess the internet is a good source, the sound bites on American news networks dont really go into detail.


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