Can Obama beat McCain?

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  1. #111

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    But where do you get your information from on the internet without money entering into the equation and what about people who don't have internet access? They have a right to information too.

    It's a nice thought but not realistic. Money and business interests are behind every source of information available today. Even people who run blogs or make comments on wikipedia have to first get their information from somewhere. I don't think there is a news source out there that is not bias. Many people think that the BBC is good but it's just as bad as the rest these days.

    I'm not sure that Sleuth is saying that America has 'the right' to lead the world rather that it does simply because it is the largest economy.

    I'm not sure democracy and capitalism go hand in hand. In fact I'm quite sure they don't. I'm yet to come across someone who says that their country's democratic process is perfect. We should probably all just pack up and head for the hills.


  2. #112
    But where do you get your information from on the internet without money entering into the equation and what about people who don't have internet access? They have a right to information too.

    It's a nice thought but not realistic. Money and business interests are behind every source of information available today. Even people who run blogs or make comments on wikipedia have to first get their information from somewhere. I don't think there is a news source out there that is not bias. Many people think that the BBC is good but it's just as bad as the rest these days.

    I'm not sure that Sleuth is saying that America has 'the right' to lead the world rather that it does simply because it is the largest economy.

    I'm not sure democracy and capitalism go hand in hand. In fact I'm quite sure they don't. I'm yet to come across someone who says that their country's democratic process is perfect. We should probably all just pack up and head for the hills.
    It literally costs cents a day to get information on the internet

    Most everyone in the US has access to the internet through public libraries and public schools if not at home. In fact most discussions about the digital divide have shifted from computer and internet access to percentage that have a broadband connection.

    It definitely takes more then cash to take the presidency, media exposure is more important. Again how much cash did McCain have when his campaign was in the toilet...Hillary had/has troubles and probably still has a campaign in debt...Perot had plenty of money (many here probably have not even heard of him despite his $)..Romney too.

    As far as america leading the world...well after WWII it was essentially US vs USSR and obviously the US came out on top. Surely Russia and China and India will battle it out for more power/influence in the future but for now the US will remain on top. We'll see how long it lasts.

    I am a complete novice however when it comes to how the poor in China are treated and looked after but am curious to know from anyone who can tell me, is the divide between rich and poor as obscene in China as it is in the US?
    Honestly? If you think it is obscene in the US then you should visit China or almost any emerging economy. Visit Shanghai - you might catch a ferrari revving past some poorer migrants. Then again you could see that in LA too

    seriously though it's a growing economy and obviously those who find success will stand out
    Last edited by meiguoren; 24-05-2008 at 06:35 PM.

  3. #113

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    money

    Reiterating that money can't quite buy an election but it's a guarantee you won't win without enough of it.

    As to finding out about candidates, obviously one needs to be able to get the message out but the millions that are spent in the US for the time that they do borders on obscene. Find one other country on earth that spends as much on electing their president(and on their military)


  4. #114

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    "It literally costs cents a day to get information on the internet"

    Sure most people have access to the internet but you're still missing my main point about the quality of information they get on it. The only reason information has made it onto the internet is because somewhere along the line there was money to be made from it getting there. That makes it just as unrealiable as anything you read in a paper or see on tv. Information doesn't happen in a vacuum and the internet is no more sacred there than any other form of media.

    Money is evil that's why you should all give me everything you have and i'll take care of it for you.


  5. #115

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raymeander:
    i dont think sleuths assertion that US has the right to lead the world is a valid one and that the democracy there is model for people to follow.

    To find out about the candidates, i guess the internet is a good source, the sound bites on American news networks dont really go into detail.
    I'm not sure I asserted that the US has a "right" to lead the world. The US merely does what it wants to do. Sometimes it consults and sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes it follows the consultation, sometimes it doesn't. Just like every other country in the world. Sometimes they hide behind the US, sometimes they don't and sometimes they agree with the US and sometimes they don't.
    If your chosen country doesn't want to follow where the US is going, it doesn't have to.

    And I still haven't seen anyone come up with a better democratic model. Just a lot of pot-shots at the US version, which I never said was perfect.
    It's all too easy to keep complaining about the front-runner.

    So, here's my bottom line, in case it isn't obvious---I'd rather live in the US than anywhere else. I can understand wanting to live in certain other countries, but not every country. Yes, there are things wrong with the US, but I am hopeful that the US will always change for the better (eventually). At least the mechanisms are in place that allow for and encourage change. I can't see the next President invading anywhere, I can't see the next President ignoring the climate mess; so there's a couple of things that will change for the better.
    Last edited by Sleuth; 26-05-2008 at 12:58 PM.

  6. #116

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    living in the US?

    Now this I find interesting... having the choice to live anywhere, why would someone pick the US? It certainly wouldn't be anywhere my top picks...

    Outstanding medical but outrageously expensive, awful crime rate, high pollution, most of it culturally barren. Northern climate not so good, southern climate unpredictable with hurricanes, tornadoes etc... California isn't too bad but overcrowded with high pollution and terrible traffic jams.

    But that's the power of marketing, loads of people flock to the US every year.

    Southern France, Italy, Portugal, Spain, New Zealand, Australia, Canada heck even Morocco I would choose over the US


  7. #117

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    Quote Originally Posted by gilleshk:
    Now this I find interesting... having the choice to live anywhere, why would someone pick the US? It certainly wouldn't be anywhere my top picks...
    It's completely inappropriate and insulting to tell someone that their choice of preferred country is wrong or stupid.

    I find this forum quite something. I thought the idea was to share ideas not to try and categorically state that another's opinions are incorrect. What's the point?

    Regardless, given the nations you listed as your preferred places to live I'm going to guess you've not lived in most or even any of them.

    I've lived in Southern France and Italy (for quite a few years and speak both languages) and can tell you that they are far from perfect. I could live in Australia as easily as I could live in California as easy as I could France. They all have pluses and minuses.

    To say that all of California is overcrowded and polluted is silly.

  8. #118

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    high horse?

    Well did we get up on the wrong side of the bed today? I never said the person was stupid, I merely said it was an interesting choice. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and hopefully one can make a point without getting all worked up.

    Granted that not all of California is polluted and overcrowded, granted also that all of the places mentioned are far from perfect since Eden doesn't exist. And as far as having lived in those countries, I have actually lived in many of them(Canada, US, Australia, New Zealand, Morocco) and visited the others extensively for periods of time.

    There are many other places that would be appealing such as scandinavian countries and Ireland but since I hadn't experienced living in those i refrained from mentioning them since I would find it harder to argue. Frankly, my dislike from living in the US has a lot to do with the crime rate, the pollution and the attitude of some of the people(NRA types) which make a significant portion(though not a majority) of the population depending on the area.

    Now Aussiegal, if you wish to go and live in the US and think it's a great place like Sleuth, that's your prerogative. Go ahead argue your point and tell us all the wonderful reasons why you would do so instead of climbing on a soap box and making false assumptions...


  9. #119

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    America would not be the first place any normal person would want to live. If aussie girl and sleuth think America is so good why arent you living there? Its ironic that for the love of American democracy you choose to come and live in a communist country.


  10. #120

    The definition of democracy is that the person with the most votes wins. This doesn't happen in the American democracy. This fundamental flaw means it cannot be the 'better than the rest'. Does having the vote change the way you live anyway? As mentioned you live in part of China now , do you feel repressed and controlled by the big red?


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