Can Obama beat McCain?

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  1. #121

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    normal?

    There must be a lot of abnormal people since people have flocked to the US for a long time. I wonder why people do, I put it mostly to great marketing.

    As to defining a democracy by saying that the person with the most vote wins... well I guess that means that North Korea would be a democracy then...


  2. #122

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    Quote Originally Posted by gilleshk:
    Now Aussiegal, if you wish to go and live in the US and think it's a great place like Sleuth, that's your prerogative. Go ahead argue your point and tell us all the wonderful reasons why you would do so instead of climbing on a soap box and making false assumptions...
    It's funny how I'm on my high horse when i'm showing the unreasonableness of your comments.

    There's no point in arguing my case. Despite the fact that I don't plan to live in the US and was merely defending a person's right to an opinion it would be pointless to do anything but cease to participate in this thread. You clearly are the argumentative for the sake of it type. It's just a waste of time.

    Watch me as I ride off into the sunset

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Raymeander:
    The definition of democracy is that the person with the most votes wins. This doesn't happen in the American democracy. This fundamental flaw means it cannot be the 'better than the rest'.
    The United States is a democratic republic - representatives in the senate and house are voted in directly and 98% of presidential elections have been decided by popular vote. The other(s) were only determined by other forces when the popular vote was 50/50. Moreover the congress (directly elected) has the ability to remove any president from office and the people can even have congressman removed/recalled. Your statement is kind of silly - after all many countries have PMs that aren't voted in by the public but MP's that are and are considered democratic. Most important - the people could have the electoral college disbanded tomorrow if enough people felt it was a necessary measure to take.

    That said the US is not a perfect place. High drinking age means college students and hs students get drunk just to "stick it to the man". Crime is relatively high and statistically speaking many cities are fairly dangerous to even be present in. Despite the many types/kinds of people in some areas - outsiders might be mistreated somewhat but that happens everywhere to some degree I guess.
    Last edited by meiguoren; 27-05-2008 at 10:17 PM.

  4. #124

    i wasnt saying usa isnt a democracy. i was responding to sleuths comment that he thinks its the best in the world and that no others are better.

    If i were judging a competition to see which was the best democracy, high on the list of requirements would be that the person with the most votes winss and that every vote counted. in 2000 gore got more votes that bush.

    Long live communism!


  5. #125

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    Quote Originally Posted by gilleshk:
    Outstanding medical but outrageously expensive, awful crime rate, high pollution, most of it culturally barren. Northern climate not so good, southern climate unpredictable with hurricanes, tornadoes etc... California isn't too bad but overcrowded with high pollution and terrible traffic jams.
    Southern France, Italy, Portugal, Spain, New Zealand, Australia, Canada heck even Morocco I would choose over the US
    The medicine is expensive, but that's also why it is outstanding. People can recoup their investment. Interestingly enough, when the government/insurance stays out of it, the prices come down (lasik, plastic surgery).
    Awful crime rate---the whole country???
    High pollution---the whole country???? And if you look at another post the Southern Californians say the air here is worse.
    Culturally barren---to each his own. Make sure you don't get caught watching any American movies or music or eating any American food or reading American authors, etc....
    Northern climate not so good---yet you listed Canada as a place you'd live. And millions of people enjoy the snow and cold; just because you are beach person doesn't mean everyone is.
    Southern climate unpredictable---that would describe most climates and hurricanes and tornadoes can't be the fault of the US.
    California---it's bigger than most countries and yet you tar it with one swipe. Overcrowded? Ever been north of San Francisco? Ever been out of greater LA??

    worldsgreatest--when did HK become communist? And you assume work allows such life-style choices.

    Raymeander--I was responding to the pot-shots at the US democracy. And you haven't come up with a better example. Nor has anyone else. You just keep on bringing up the stupid Gore thing. Like it happens all the time in the US. And the system came up with an answer without resulting to civil war or riots. Doesn't matter whether you like the answer or not, and half of the US didn't like it. But that's the way the system works.

  6. #126

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleuth:
    The medicine is expensive, but that's also why it is outstanding. People can recoup their investment. Interestingly enough, when the government/insurance stays out of it, the prices come down (lasik, plastic surgery).
    Awful crime rate---the whole country???
    High pollution---the whole country???? And if you look at another post the Southern Californians say the air here is worse.
    Culturally barren---to each his own. Make sure "you don't get caught watching any American vies or music or eating any American food or reading American authors, etc....
    Northern climate not so good---yet you listed Canada as a place you'd live. And millions of people enjoy the snow and cold; just because you are beach person doesn't mean everyone is.
    Southern climate unpredictable---that would describe most climates and hurricanes and tornadoes can't be the fault of the US.
    California---it's bigger than most countries and yet you tar it with one swipe. Overcrowded? Ever been north of San Francisco? Ever been out of greater LA??

    worldsgreatest--when did HK become communist? And you assume work allows such life-style choices.

    Raymeander--I was responding to the pot-shots at the US democracy. And you haven't come up with a better example. Nor has anyone else. You just keep on bringing up the stupid Gore thing. Like it happens all the time in the US. And the system came up with an answer without resulting to civil war or riots. Doesn't matter whether you like the answer or not, and half of the US didn't like it. But that's the way the system works.

    If you meant the US medical care system was "outstanding" in that 80 million or so of its population cannot afford health care coverage then you have a point.

    The Gore thing in America does happen quite a bit. There is not one general election for POTUS, it is many elections run at state levels across the USA and then the Electoral College where each state selects its voters who vote for the candidates based on the state vote- even though I think they don't have to if memory serves me. This vote is then certified or ratified by the Congress.

    The process was designed to be a states based voting system that was set in the Constitution. In fact, if you look at the powers of the POTUS they are very, very limited other than doing stupid things like starting wars and begging for the money later as POTUS is Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces. A POTUS can say anything but unless the two branches of Congress agree all he can do is talk or veto (and a veto can be broke by a 2/3 vote of the Senate IIRC - maybe Congress as a whole.

    Stuff happens in US elections that are anti-democratic including the 1960 Presidential election that vaulted JFK into the White House with the swing happening IIRC in Cook County run by then Mayor Richard Daley along with a lot of dead folks in Texas who used to vote for LBJ. Hey Nixon got even in the 1968 election in Illinois to counter any cheating by the Democrats.

    In 2004 POTUS election, wasn't there some funny things like voter suppression as it is called going on in Ohio which Bush won with a razor margin of victory? People got phoney letters saying they were not registered and couldn't then vote so stayed home.

    Canada is no exception to having funny voting things in places like the Province of Quebec back in the 1950s when people would bring in new ballot boxes when the polls closed that kept Premier Duplessis in power. He'd have his people take booze, food and tv sets etc to small towns to exchange for votes. Of course, the Liberal opposition did their share of voting irregularities too . I knew some folks from those days who drove the same Liberal voters from poll to poll all day long only to have the people arrive with fully loaded ballot boxes when the polls closed.


    This stuff goes on in democracies although I think now in Canada not so much. The funny stuff goes on in winning nominations to run for elections as the strategy is to sign up as many ethnic Canadians in many areas to get their guy a nice sinecure in Parliament. This sadly is changing the course of Canadian democracy for the worst as few people ever join a political party thereby leaving this to those who turn up to vote.

    And finally from TrailCanada.ca a climate report on Canada:

    Canada's climate is not as cold all year around as some may believe. In winter, temperatures fall below freezing point throughout most of Canada. But the south-western coast has a relatively mild climate. Along the Arctic Circle, mean temperatures are below freezing for seven months a year.

    During the summer months the southern provinces often experience high levels of humidity and temperatures that can surpass 30 degrees Celsius regularly.

    Western and south-eastern Canada experience high rainfall, but the Prairies are dry with 250 mm to 500 mm of rain every year.
    Last edited by Football16; 28-05-2008 at 02:57 PM.

  7. #127

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    McCain's New Criteria to be POTUS

    Has this guy not googled "Iraq War Costs" and found that it is costing something like $9 billion per month (using the US gov't figures). This thing is heading for $1 trillion dollars but the debate is about which guy is better fit to send kids to get killed??!! Go figure.


    McCain Proposes Trip To Iraq With Obama
    ALBUQUERQUE, N.M., May 27, 2008(CBS/AP)

    McCain Proposes Trip To Iraq With Obama
    ALBUQUERQUE, N.M., May 27, 2008(CBS/AP) Republican John McCain on Monday sharply criticized Democratic rival Barack Obama for not having been to Iraq since 2006, and said they should visit the war zone together.

    "Look at what happened in the last two years since Senator Obama visited and declared the war lost," the GOP presidential nominee-in-waiting told The Associated Press in an interview, noting that the Illinois senator's last trip to Iraq came before the military buildup that is credited with curbing violence.


  8. #128

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleuth:
    The medicine is expensive, but that's also why it is outstanding. People can recoup their investment. Interestingly enough, when the government/insurance stays out of it, the prices come down (lasik, plastic surgery).
    Awful crime rate---the whole country???
    High pollution---the whole country???? And if you look at another post the Southern Californians say the air here is worse.
    Culturally barren---to each his own. Make sure you don't get caught watching any American movies or music or eating any American food or reading American authors, etc....
    Northern climate not so good---yet you listed Canada as a place you'd live. And millions of people enjoy the snow and cold; just because you are beach person doesn't mean everyone is.
    Southern climate unpredictable---that would describe most climates and hurricanes and tornadoes can't be the fault of the US.
    California---it's bigger than most countries and yet you tar it with one swipe. Overcrowded? Ever been north of San Francisco? Ever been out of greater LA??
    Medicine isn't expensive because it's great, it mostly has to do with high insurance premiums due to the US being an over litigious society.

    Sure if you choose to live in the heart of Wyoming, the crime rate and the pollution will be lower... And yes there are lovely communities north of San Francisco such as Mendocito or Sausalito.

    On the other hand, I challenge you to find ANY studies that puts the US in the top 5 places to live in the world when taking into account multiple factorsLife, longevity, crime rate, pollution etc...)

    Granted Canada has a cold climate in the winter like the northern US but a much lower crime rate, less pollution, less traffic etc...

    New Zealand and Australia aren't exactly full of cultural opportunities but again many other mitigating factors.

    No place is perfect and people find different things appealing. London for example is a very popular choice yet I wouldn't live there for all the money in the world.

    And although I generally enjoy interacting with americans living overseas, I find that the average joe on the street in the US isn't my cup of tea either. But to each his/her own...

  9. #129

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sleuth:
    And the system came up with an answer without resulting to civil war or riots
    Just a different kind of war..or two!

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Raymeander:
    i wasnt saying usa isnt a democracy. i was responding to sleuths comment that he thinks its the best in the world and that no others are better.

    If i were judging a competition to see which was the best democracy, high on the list of requirements would be that the person with the most votes winss and that every vote counted. in 2000 gore got more votes that bush.

    Long live communism!
    heh agreed, my mistake

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