Like Tree9Likes

US democracy at work

Reply
Page 3 of 13 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 11 ... LastLast
  1. #21

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    4,905

    Pop quiz

    Which is the only western democracy has the most lax control gun control laws?

    Which western democracy has the most gun violence?

    Chicken or the egg?


  2. #22

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    420
    Quote Originally Posted by Claire ex-ax:
    Was at Bisley the day a man committed suicide there. A local farmer blew his head off with his shotgun, an accident - he rested the gun against the kitchen table but had forgotten to break the barrel.
    Is it committing suicide if he accidentally shot himself?

  3. #23

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    420
    Quote Originally Posted by gilleshk:
    And keep in mind the language of the Constitution is: The precise language of the Second Amendment reads:

    "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."
    Taken from the same Wikipedia page you probably quoted;

    "Modern legal theorists generally identify three models of interpreting the right to bear arms in the United States.

    The first two models focus on the preamble, or "purpose" clause, of the Amendment — the words "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State."

    The third model, the Individual Rights Model, holds that a right of individuals is to own and possess firearms, much as the First Amendment protects a right of individuals to engage in free speech."


    Just above that quote on the same Wikipedia page, was a ruling from 'Bliss v. Commonwealth' which said;

    "This holding was unique because it stated that the right to bear arms is absolute and unqualified."




    So... depends how you interpret it. Lots of judges have seen it as a right for all people. Which is fair enough.


    But I do think guns should be much more heavily controlled in the USA than they currently are. But not necessarily banned if they're in the constitution. Just have strict enforcement.

    I mean, the UK is pretty much "gun free" but guns aren't entirely banned, you can get a license and own a shotgun or rifle, as most farmers do.

  4. #24

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    4,905
    Quote Originally Posted by Hamton:
    Taken from the same Wikipedia page you probably quoted;

    "Modern legal theorists generally identify three models of interpreting the right to bear arms in the United States.

    The first two models focus on the preamble, or "purpose" clause, of the Amendment — the words "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State."

    The third model, the Individual Rights Model, holds that a right of individuals is to own and possess firearms, much as the First Amendment protects a right of individuals to engage in free speech."


    Just above that quote on the same Wikipedia page, was a ruling from 'Bliss v. Commonwealth' which said;

    "This holding was unique because it stated that the right to bear arms is absolute and unqualified."




    So... depends how you interpret it. Lots of judges have seen it as a right for all people. Which is fair enough.


    But I do think guns should be much more heavily controlled in the USA than they currently are. But not necessarily banned if they're in the constitution. Just have strict enforcement.

    I mean, the UK is pretty much "gun free" but guns aren't entirely banned, you can get a license and own a shotgun or rifle, as most farmers do.

    Well very obviously, the second amendment can be read in a variety of ways... The other obvious issue is what constitutes arms... Should anyone be allowed to own an Uzi or an AK47? These are actually restrictions on gun use and the Chicago and Washington law simply bans the hand gun, it's not a complete ban. There was the Federal Assault weapons ban that was passed in 1994. Should that also be unconstitutional? It could be argued(and has been) that it doesn't infringe the right to bear arms it simply regulates it.

  5. #25

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Sarcasm - because beating the crap out of people is illegal
    Posts
    14,636
    Quote Originally Posted by Hamton:
    Is it committing suicide if he accidentally shot himself?


    If you mean what I think you mean, no. These were two different people. The staff member at Bisley walked onto the pistol range, happened back in the late 1970s (I think, but the memory is dodgy...)

  6. #26

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    420
    Quote Originally Posted by Claire ex-ax:


    If you mean what I think you mean, no. These were two different people. The staff member at Bisley walked onto the pistol range, happened back in the late 1970s (I think, but the memory is dodgy...)
    I mean the old man who accidentally shot himself... or both incidents probably.

    My point was just being pedantic - suicide is intentionally killing yourself. If you accidentally dropped a gun and it shot you, that's not suicide. That's just really shitty luck.

  7. #27

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    SHEUNG WAN
    Posts
    176

    Look at it this way: The US government worked as it was designed to do. The Legislative and Executive branches passed a law. The Judicial branch overruled it. Margin of "victory" is irrelevant here.

    If I am referring back to the OP and not the raving lunatics arguing about guns, I can safely argue that the US government worked as it was designed to work.


  8. #28

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    SHEUNG WAN
    Posts
    176
    Quote Originally Posted by gilleshk:
    Pop quiz

    Which is the only western democracy has the most lax control gun control laws?

    Which western democracy has the most gun violence?

    Chicken or the egg?
    This is still ignoring the plain old fact that an overwhelming majority of gun owners are fairly responsible and law abiding citizens. How do you plan on addressing their concerns?

    Let's be reasonable. The full on ban was unconstitutional. Reasonable regulation is accepted by most people and I'm no NRA nut.

  9. #29

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    4,905
    Quote Originally Posted by chowfun:
    This is still ignoring the plain old fact that an overwhelming majority of gun owners are fairly responsible and law abiding citizens. How do you plan on addressing their concerns?

    Let's be reasonable. The full on ban was unconstitutional. Reasonable regulation is accepted by most people and I'm no NRA nut.
    It was not a full on ban, it was a handgun ban. I'm still very curious on how they would explain themselves accepting an assault weapon ban but not a handgun ban if you look at the second amendment.

    To sya that the government worked as it's supposed to work is a cop out. The Supreme Court had declined to rule on this on previous occasions and now they did... Why?

  10. #30

    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    394
    Quote Originally Posted by gilleshk:
    Pop quiz

    Which is the only western democracy has the most lax control gun control laws?

    Which western democracy has the most gun violence?

    Chicken or the egg?
    That is a bunch of bullshit! The problem is with American culture, not with the guns. In Canada it is simple to get a gun, no big deal. Take a look at Switzerland where the goverment gives everyone a firearm!

    I am an adult and if I want to own a gun then I dont need any government or liberal to tell me I can't. The gun violence in the USA has everything to do with the culture and mentality of the people.

    Banning guns won't solve gun violence in America, only a change in mentality and culture will!

Reply
Page 3 of 13 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 11 ... LastLast