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US democracy at work

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  1. #31

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    Every day 80 Americans are killed by guns - that's over 29,000 a year. In one year, firearms killed no children in Japan, 19 in Great Britain, 57 in Germany, 109 in France, 153 in Canada, and 5,285 in the United States (Source: Centers for Disease Control).

    So why are people so shocked when someone walks through a school (or university as we call it in the UK) campus or workplace, armed to the nines, killing people? Or are they just shocked a percentage of the 80 a day are killed in one place? It seems odd that people happily carry guns but "dang it" when folks are actually killed by guns...


  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by chowfun:
    This is still ignoring the plain old fact that an overwhelming majority of gun owners are fairly responsible and law abiding citizens. How do you plan on addressing their concerns?

    Let's be reasonable. The full on ban was unconstitutional. Reasonable regulation is accepted by most people and I'm no NRA nut.
    By the way, you are talking about the rights of only about 25% of the adult population here. Most surveys show the majority of the population favoring bans on handguns. How do you define this as unreasonable? Do you consider smoking bans unreasonable also? Infringing on the rights of even more people. Granted that the right to puff isn't in the constitution.

    It's not about the law, it's politics, money and lobbying.

  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Claire ex-ax:
    I'm anti-gun and have held one or two in my hands. Shot many guns including a Colt Python .357 Magnum (4" barrel) and a break-action double-barrelled shotgun (grew up in the country).

    Was at Bisley the day a man committed suicide there. A local farmer blew his head off with his shotgun, an accident - he rested the gun against the kitchen table but had forgotten to break the barrel. Same thing happened to a friend's father - Neil was arrested for his father's murder till the evidence proved it was an accident.

    But that's not why I'm anti-gun and anti-knife - and against the mentality that killing people solves problems. I cannot figure out any logical reason why anyone would want to kill another person. I don't want to kill anyone, not even the person who killed my husband and two boys. Killing someone shouldn't be easy. It should be damned hard and not just because it was dark and they rang your doorbell.
    Why not just stick to being anti-murder instead of anti-gun or knife?

    Drunk drivers kill more people than guns every year. Let's make sure drunk drivers are put away for life.

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by gilleshk:
    Granted that the right to puff isn't in the constitution.
    You wrote this yourself. I think you must've realized this is factual and true and you chose to ignore it.

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Claire ex-ax:
    Every day 80 Americans are killed by guns - that's over 29,000 a year. In one year, firearms killed no children in Japan, 19 in Great Britain, 57 in Germany, 109 in France, 153 in Canada, and 5,285 in the United States (Source: Centers for Disease Control).

    "A national survey commissioned by the Canadian Firearms Centre in 2000 found an estimated 2.3 million firearm owners.

    More than 1,000 Canadians die every year from gunshot wounds. In 1996 the total firearm deaths amounted to 1,131, of which 815 were suicides."


    Two things to take from that;

    99.96% of gun owners manage not to kill someone.

    72% of the deaths would have probably happened some other way if the owners didn't have guns.


    I'm still not pro or anti guns though. If it's in the constitution though...

    But at the same time, a gun's main use is pretty much to kill living things, so I'm not a great fan of them. But in some rural environments you might need one to kill animals or protect your property. I'm not saying hand guns out to everyone on the street though.

  6. #36

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    The constitution doesn't say the right to bear handguns or assault weapons...

    How do you differentiate? Technically, one shouldn't... If you allow handguns, why not assault weapons?

    And once again, the Supreme Court had previously refused to rule on this issue which was upheld by lower courts. Why the change now? Has the constitution changed?

    Ask yourself what has changed? The answer is quite simple... and it has very little to do with law.


  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamton:
    "A national survey commissioned by the Canadian Firearms Centre in 2000 found an estimated 2.3 million firearm owners.

    More than 1,000 Canadians die every year from gunshot wounds. In 1996 the total firearm deaths amounted to 1,131, of which 815 were suicides."
    To be noted that handguns are restricted in Canada which essentially means that regular citizen can't carry a concealed weapon legally in order to protect themselves and many of the weapons allowed in the US are strictly banned.

    That's the difference between a Dirty Harry culture and farmer Joe one...

  8. #38

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    There's a simple solution for anti-gun Americans. Muster enough votes to repeal the Second Amendment.

    Frankly this will not happen in my life time, so I don't see the point of arguing about gun rights...it's already established.

    The key is writing good laws and enforcing them. Educate people about how to handle guns and safety procedures. Not everyone want guns, so don't make it blatantly available similar to how cigarettes and alcohol are handled.

    Am I asking for too much or am I bring reasonable?


  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by chowfun:
    The key is writing good laws and enforcing them.
    What is a good law? Laws are passed by politicians with an agenda and then struck down or upheld by judges tied to politics...

    What is the difference between the Federal Assault Weapon ban and a handgun ban?

    I don't think too many people want to ban guns outright. Many countries allow rifles, skeet shooting etc...

    It's about having some kind of control. That can be done within the scope of the 2nd amendment and as I said many courts have upheld the handgun bans and the Supreme Court had repeatedly passed on the case until now...Why?

    In a way, this might be a very good thing. It will signal how dangerous it is to keep someone like Bush in power for two terms.

    It goes to a much larger issue on how the Supreme Court is likely to rule on other cases. It's not unthinkable to foresee Roe vs Wade being overturned and I will be surprised if it isn't picked up by Obama during the campaign

  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by gilleshk:
    In a way, this might be a very good thing. It will signal how dangerous it is to keep someone like Bush in power for two terms.
    Now I see this is just polarizing partisan nonsense for you.

    This issue has nothing to do with Bush. What you're asserting is like Republicans blaming Bill Clinton for global warming or Democrats blaming Reagan for meth abuse. Pure nonsense.

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