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  1. #41

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    Let's ask again... the handgun ban has been in place for many years. Lower courts have upheld it, the Supreme Court had passed on it before. What has changed?


  2. #42

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    The genie is out of the bottle and it's impossible to get it back in again. A ban didn't work with booze. People continue to have easy access to drugs, despite a long, long "war" on drugs. A gun ban won't work because it has been ingrained in the American culture and psyche.

    We can't expect American citizens to have the same sensibilities at us Europeans about these things, including the death penalty. It's like trying to teach a pig to dance; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.


  3. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Claire ex-ax:
    Every day 80 Americans are killed by guns - that's over 29,000 a year. In one year, firearms killed no children in Japan, 19 in Great Britain, 57 in Germany, 109 in France, 153 in Canada, and 5,285 in the United States (Source: Centers for Disease Control).

    So why are people so shocked when someone walks through a school (or university as we call it in the UK) campus or workplace, armed to the nines, killing people? Or are they just shocked a percentage of the 80 a day are killed in one place? It seems odd that people happily carry guns but "dang it" when folks are actually killed by guns...
    Since we're all great at quoting statistics, I'll give you this one to put your stats into perspective:

    http://www.ntsb.gov/Publictn/2000/SPC0003.pdf
    According to the NTSB:
    There were an estimated 6,289,000 car accidents in the US in 1999. There were about 3.4 million injuries and 41,611 people killed in auto accidents in 1999.

    I know you'll try to challenge this by saying cars aren't made to kill. But let's be serious, can you really ignore such a big number?

    MANY more people die from "accidents" using a tool meant for transportation than "accidents and intentional attacks" using a tool meant for hunting and self-defense. Guns sold in hunting shops and Walmart are not meant for killing people, just as cars sold in dealerships are not meant for killing people.

    Address the bigger problem first.
    Last edited by chowfun; 27-06-2008 at 05:47 PM.

  4. #44

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    I think it's unfair to label all americans as gun nuts. The polls are currently down the middle when it comes to gun control laws. Not that long ago 70% americans favored stricter gun control laws.

    As to the questions I've asked, the judges decided that handguns are OK because they are the most popular guns owned and the difference between Assault Weapons and handguns is that they tried to "honor" the 2nd amendment and the kind of weapons that were in use at the time it was written... Pretty lame reasoning for legal scholars if you ask me.

    Legal scholars and judges can't even agree on whether the Constitution is meant to protect the individual's right or whether it's for a militia so I don't expect anyone to be able to claim to be right or wrong either way.

    It's a political issue not a legal one


  5. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by chowfun:
    Since we're all great at quoting statistics, I'll give you this one to put your stats into perspective:

    http://www.ntsb.gov/Publictn/2000/SPC0003.pdf
    According to the NTSB:
    There were an estimated 6,289,000 car accidents in the US in 1999. There were about 3.4 million injuries and 41,611 people killed in auto accidents in 1999.

    I know you'll try to challenge this by saying cars aren't made to kill. But let's be serious, can you really ignore such a big number?

    MANY more people die from "accidents" using a tool meant for transportation than "accidents and intentional attacks" using a tool meant for hunting and self-defense. Guns sold in hunting shops and Walmart are not meant for killing people, just as cars sold in dealerships are not meant for killing people.

    Address the bigger problem first.
    And what is the bigger problem? Statistics can speak in different ways... If you look at deaths relative to usage, you would see that it's less risky to own a car than to own a gun for example.

    You could also compare the rate of car accidents in other countries and the rate of violent crime and see a big difference...

    And yes it can be argued that the direct purpose of a gun is to kill or injure, it may be people or animals but it's a fact just the same.

    There are other disturbing facts such as manufacturers selling print resistant guns, ones that can easily be transformed into automatic weapons. What's the big deal of allowing rifles for self defense in a home as opposed to allowing concealed weapons? What's the big deal with stricter licensing rules? You need to take a driving test to drive a car but not to own a gun?

    It's not about banning guns, it's about having some control...

  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by gilleshk:
    Let's ask again... the handgun ban has been in place for many years. Lower courts have upheld it, the Supreme Court had passed on it before. What has changed?
    The Supreme Court has finally decided to address the issue.

    However, just some other questions if I may.... As Chicago and surrounding suburbs had a handgun ban effectively since around 1981...can you kindly explain how come gun related violence in Chicago has continued to significantly increase ???

    In a 2006 study...it’s been estimated that up to 40% of the crime guns are supplied by less than 1% of the dealers.

  7. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by Claire ex-ax:
    I'm anti-gun and have held one or two in my hands. Shot many guns including a Colt Python .357 Magnum (4" barrel) and a break-action double-barrelled shotgun (grew up in the country).

    Was at Bisley the day a man committed suicide there. A local farmer blew his head off with his shotgun, an accident - he rested the gun against the kitchen table but had forgotten to break the barrel. Same thing happened to a friend's father - Neil was arrested for his father's murder till the evidence proved it was an accident.

    But that's not why I'm anti-gun and anti-knife - and against the mentality that killing people solves problems. I cannot figure out any logical reason why anyone would want to kill another person. I don't want to kill anyone, not even the person who killed my husband and two boys. Killing someone shouldn't be easy. It should be damned hard and not just because it was dark and they rang your doorbell.
    You know, I've been training with guns and knives for over 10 years and I honestly can say I would never want to have to kill someone, especially with a knife. I would hate to have someone's warm, sticky blood on me. I know from experience that anyone can change (and people always do in one way or another), so to take another's life is not something to be taken lightly. I wholeheartedly agree with you. I fired a .357 Mag Ruger SP-101 3" a few years ago (with +P ammo) and man, was that ever an experience.

    Used to sleep with a 12 gauge Mossberg too. As long as you're extremely careful with firearms, you'll be fine. You need to keep 'em pointed in a safe direction all the time.

    Now knives are another story. Play with them and you eventually will get cut. :] I have a new scar thanks to a razor-sharp Japanese blade I bought a few months ago.

  8. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by gilleshk:
    And what is the bigger problem? Statistics can speak in different ways... If you look at deaths relative to usage, you would see that it's less risky to own a car than to own a gun for example.
    Ooh. Ooh. Oooooh!

    You've just used my argument from another thread there...

  9. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by climber07:
    The Supreme Court has finally decided to address the issue.

    However, just some other questions if I may.... As Chicago and surrounding suburbs had a handgun ban effectively since around 1981...can you kindly explain how come gun related violence in Chicago has continued to significantly increase ???

    In a 2006 study...it’s been estimated that up to 40% of the crime guns are supplied by less than 1% of the dealers.
    Both DC and Chicago are surrounded by locales where handguns can be bought without any form of ID needed, as long as you buy them from a private individual. For example, you can buy a handgun 20 mins from the center of DC, pay cash, ride back into DC and pop someone. If you do that, you're a criminal, but there are lots of people in both cities who don't care about the law. Since nobody can legally pack (except for law enforcement and a select few others), the rest are sitting ducks. This will level the playing field, so to speak.

    People who are licensed to carry (as they will be required to be in DC and Chitown) are involved in far less shootings than police officers, for example.

    Not addressing you directly, climber, since you probably know a lot of the above. I know what your stance on guns is from your previous posts.

  10. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hamton:
    Ooh. Ooh. Oooooh!

    You've just used my argument from another thread there...
    haha! Did he now?

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