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  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunfire:
    Jay doesn't seem psychotic, and there's no reason he'd have to be just because he had a shotgun by his bed. It's tactically sound. It's immediately available when you wake up. There's every chance that by the time you become aware of an intruder, he's already well inside your home and you're unable to fetch it from behind your front door, your closet, or wherever else you might keep it.
    They won't listen to your logic or explanation. They've already made up their mind about banning all guns, regardless of how little sense it makes to you and me.

    I advocate keeping an open mind. I used to think banning guns was a great idea...when I was 10 years old. Fortunately, I grew up.

  2. #62

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    I actually kept it in bed next to me. Often gave it a pillow of its own. Handguns are better for home defense though. The sound of a shotgun blast indoors would leave your ears ringing for weeks.

    Keeping an open mind is definitely a good thing. People are always capable of changing. I never say never, which is why I keep lots of high quality high carbon steel blades around.


  3. #63

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    I cant relate to you Jay, sorry mate.

    Your life in the USA sounds completely alien to me. I just cannot relate to it.

    And I would say most of the British Commonwealth and the EU wouldn't agree either.

    You guys can make all the justifying statements you like about your love of the gun, it doesn't wash with me.

    USA is meant to be the best country, but you need to sleep with a gun under the pillow.

    Until I saw this topic on GEO, I honestly thought that is just what the South Africans did during Apartheid.

    Seems modern day America isn't all that different, if home invasions are that prolific you need to arm the home with guns.

    Maybe your govt should spend $1.3 trillion on increasing its Police resources and public security, instead of wasting that money on liberating Middle East countries without an invitation.

    Last edited by Skyhook; 27-06-2008 at 11:04 PM.

  4. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by BXL:
    In my view, the SCOTUS got it wrong today. The DC ban (and the Chicago one too) are bans on hand guns; they are not bans on all guns, DC and Chicago residents remain free to purchase shotguns and rifles.

    I see no distinction between a ban on one category of guns (assault weapons) which is declared in conformity with the 2nd amendment and another ban on a category of guns (hand guns) which the SCOTUS has now declared unconsitutional.

    To me, this is simply evidence of the changes on the Court wrought by W. Without Roberts and Alito, the DC law is upheld.

    Absolutely agree with that... and the point I keep trying to make.

    I believe Scalia's rationale on the assault weapon ban is that they are trying to honor the spirit of the constitution and Assault Weapons didn't exist back then but handguns did. Also mentioned was the fact that handguns are the most popular weapon owned(Can you spell gun lobby on that one!!!)

  5. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyhook:
    I cant relate to you Jay, sorry mate.

    Your life in the USA sounds completely alien to me. I just cannot relate to it.

    And I would say most of the British Commonwealth and the EU wouldn't agree either.

    You guys can make all the justifying statements you like about your love of the gun, it doesn't wash with me.

    USA is meant to be the best country, but you need to sleep with a gun under the pillow.

    Until I saw this topic on GEO, I honestly thought that is just what the South Africans did during Apartheid.

    Seems modern day America isn't all that different, if home invasions are that prolific you need to arm the home with guns.
    Beautiful as it is, far from the best country in the world. I'm actually British matey. The vast majority of people would not agree with me, and that's fine with me, as I've never been one to seek support from the masses, but remember, those who have been charged to protect us do so with weapons. If you wish to protect yourself, it makes sense to be armed too.

    It's more than a genuine need. We want to protect ourselves with the same weapons those who wish to hurt us have, and we should be allowed to. I consider it a right.
    Last edited by jayinhongkong; 27-06-2008 at 11:06 PM.

  6. #66

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    One thing I am not trying to do is have a go at you alright, Jay.

    i am just trying to get a grasp of the reasons why the hand gun ideology is so ingrained in US society.

    I didn't grow up in a hand gun society, the bolt action Remington stock rifle ( my grand fathers ) was my family's only gun, as we were heavily involved in wheat/sheep and cattle farming. 7000 hectares in fact. The gun was never purchased to protect our house hold FFS lol.

    It was to put down lame stock or shoot the odd rabbit for a stock mans stew.

    Anyway, different societal inferences apply, and hand guns used by civilians even in self defence in the home would wind you up in jail back home. They are not legally to be used against another person, only the Police have that power and maybe armed security guards if placed in a life threatening situation.

    I don't have a problem with bolt action .22 caliber rifles, I do with 38 cal revolvers using hollow points or cross cut rounds, via civilians that don't have the EQ to take the law into their own hands.

    Last edited by Skyhook; 27-06-2008 at 11:33 PM.

  7. #67

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    Hollywood is definitely to blame for the obsession with handguns, and this culture's spread worldwide. I saw a kid running around in Yau Ma Tei earlier acting like he was holding a pistol. I've been playing with toy pistols since I was 3 or 4 years old myself.

    Part of the reason I chose to arm myself in the US was because of the sheer violence people are willing to perpetrate against each other. The UK's going the same way. They've had a staggering increase in gun and knife crime there. It's totally a culturalization thing.

    HK is not immune to violence either. I knew a kid when I was in secondary school here who assaulted a bouncer with his friends and blinded him in one eye and broke several of his ribs. They were about 16 or 17 at the time. I choose to arm myself because a lot of people out there have no respect for life. The only thing they fear is losing their own. In some cases, they don't even fear that.

    Last edited by jayinhongkong; 27-06-2008 at 11:31 PM.

  8. #68

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    As respectfully as I can put this...Skyhook...Do you not see a problem with yourself trying to impose your values on people in another country? It's one thing to point out you disagree with gun ownership, but you really sound like you want to force me (American) to abide by your values.

    I'm not telling you that UK, HK, EU should legalize guns.
    I'm advocating for US citizens to maintain a well-established right since the country's inception. Aim to improve regulations and enforcement.

    What's your beef with Americans and USA?


  9. #69

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    Actually no Chowfun.

    We all live in HK, and all firearms are illegal amongst the civilian populous.

    If this forum was only for Americans to contribute an opinion on, then thats fine, but as its an open forum for all nationalities, I am entitled to my opinion about guns within society, no matter where that may be.



    Is that fair enough Chow mate ? Please dont take the "we are having a go at the USA"stance ", it gets a bit old after awhile.

    Especially considering our countries are allies, and that we have done more than our share militarilly supporting your troops in IRAQ. Maybe you should google RAAF 75SQN 2003 IRAQ and sit back and absorb an external observation for a change, without feeling that the world is against you ...

    Alright little fella....


    ------------------------------------------------
    Back to Jay, fair enough mate I can understand your point of view, I can see where you are coming from, via your last post.

    No location is totally crime free, and we are all products of our direct engaged environments.

    I like to consider that I obey the laws where we live, and expect the same from everybody else. HK can pride itself that it has a very visible beat police, and considering it costs the govt 60% of its budget expenditure to maintain, the results speak for themselves.

    Last edited by Skyhook; 28-06-2008 at 12:02 AM.

  10. #70

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    Skyhook: You're trying to be condescending, but your message is not very well put together.

    I fully respect HK's law and I abide by them when I'm here.
    I exercise my consitutional rights when I'm in the US.

    I referred to USA in the context of the DC gun ban case, handled by the SCOTUS, related to the US Constitution. The case had nothing to do with any other country.

    To quote you: "You guys can make all the justifying statements you like about your love of the gun, it doesn't wash with me."
    "USA is meant to be the best country, but you need to sleep with a gun under the pillow."
    "Seems modern day America isn't all that different, if home invasions are that prolific you need to arm the home with guns."

    You are clearly anti-America (which is acceptable as your personal opinion) and you don't understand why guns are allowed there.

    Did I misunderstand you and "take the we are having a go at the USA stance?" The message I got from your posts indicate that you have an inferiority complex. I could be totally wrong, but that's what I read.


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