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US democracy at work

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  1. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by zenlogo:
    When the U.S constitution was drafted, the army consisted of trained armed civilians – the militia. I think that if the forefathers knew how their 2nd amendment was being interpreted (indeed edited to the last few words) - they would roll-over in their graves.
    In a civilized society it makes no sense for everyone to be an armed cowboy dispensing death at the next instance of roadrage.

    Why on earth would a sentient adult being in a civilzed society need to pack a gun?... to blow a way the neighbours’s kid who’s ripping off your lawnmower? Grow-up kiddies, Hollywood ain’t real and John Wayne was an actor named Marion.

    It's silly to pretend you know what the US forefathers think.

    It's silly to use fearmongering by creating these horror scenarios when they rarely ever happen.

    It's silly to ignore the fact that 99%+ adult gun owners had not, have not, will not commit crimes with their weapons.

    It's silly to ignore how total gun bans don't work anyway. Criminals can still get them in any country for under $100 USD.

    It's silly to write tirades about how gun owners don't NEED guns. NEED is not a prerequisite for ownership of anything. WANT is.

    Silly.

  2. #72

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    Chowfun, you were definitely dropped on your head mate. Twist peoples observations how ever you want.


    At the end of the day the gun problems in the USA won't affect me. If you want to continue killing 30,000 plus people each year, via hand gun related homicides, don't do anything about it.

    Civilian fired hand guns in the USA have killed more Americans than all military fatalities produced in all the wars the USA has participated in since WW2.

    And I am not anti American, I am anti hand gun and assault rifle within joe public society.

    Just because I don't agree with some American cultural beliefs, I am branded anti American, and branded as having an inferiority complex lol.

    What ever blows your hair back mate. Water off a ducks back at this end.

    Last edited by Skyhook; 28-06-2008 at 12:29 AM.

  3. #73

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    I think it's pretty sad to need to be armed to feel safe. Some of you guys make it sound as if every red blooded american carries a gun, it's actually only about 25%.

    And violence breeds violence,the statistics clearly show that gun owners actually suffer from more violence than non gun owners.

    The stats and my personal experience tell me the same. I've been in more than one dicey situation in the US, Canada, Central America, Laos, Thailand and Australia and I've always managed to get out with nothing worse than a bloody nose and a black eye. Guaranteed that if I had pulled a knife or a gun, I'd be dead today. I'd much rather rely on my head and my mouth or as a last resort, my fists.

    In my opinion, it's a bit foolish and arrogant, perhaps seen to many Rambo movies to think that you can help yourself because you own a gun. You're more likely to get shot for example if two or more intruders are after you and they are armed. In the movies, Rambo may be able to face 100 people but in real life, it doesn't work like that...

    Pull a gun or a knife in a fight and you're more likely to get the same back. If not in that particular instant then later. Again it's pretty arrogant to think you'll come out on top every time.

    And some of you mention your right to carry..Do you feel you should have the right to have grenades? AK47? Uzi? What about communities that vote for elected officials that want stricter gun control? Do they have rights too? The 2nd amendment just isn't clear enough to cover all.


  4. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by chowfun:
    It's silly to ignore how total gun bans don't work anyway. Criminals can still get them in any country for under $100 USD.
    Few people are advocating gun bans, we're talking about gun control...

    And how would you know if it works or not in the US? There's never been any on a national scale.

    Gun control works very well in other countries...

    And once again, if the US is a democratic country, shouldn't it be up to the people to decide? If they elect officials that favor gun control laws, don't they have the right to that?

  5. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skyhook:
    Actually no Chowfun.

    We all live in HK, and all firearms are illegal amongst the civilian populous.

    Back to Jay, fair enough mate I can understand your point of view, I can see where you are coming from, via your last post.

    No location is totally crime free, and we are all products of our direct engaged environments.

    I like to consider that I obey the laws where we live, and expect the same from everybody else. HK can pride itself that it has a very visible beat police, and considering it costs the govt 60% of its budget expenditure to maintain, the results speak for themselves.

    Yup, we have a great police force, but there are still horrible things that happen here on occasion. No matter what you ban, people will still maim and kill each other in some way. Look at the guy in Japan a few weeks ago. Killed several people using nothing but a rented truck and a knife. Are we going to ban vehicles next?

    BTW, you are allowed to own guns here if you jump through certain loopholes. Not going to get into that now though.

  6. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by jayinhongkong:
    BTW, you are allowed to own guns here if you jump through certain loopholes. Not going to get into that now though.
    Yes and that is the point of gun control..not to allow any Tom, Dick and Harry to own one...

    Does it make sense to you that you can't drive a car without a test but you can own a gun?

  7. #77

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    Excellent post Giles, that was awesome.


  8. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by gilleshk:
    I think it's pretty sad to need to be armed to feel safe. Some of you guys make it sound as if every red blooded american carries a gun, it's actually only about 25%.

    And violence breeds violence,the statistics clearly show that gun owners actually suffer from more violence than non gun owners.

    The stats and my personal experience tell me the same. I've been in more than one dicey situation in the US, Canada, Central America, Laos, Thailand and Australia and I've always managed to get out with nothing worse than a bloody nose and a black eye. Guaranteed that if I had pulled a knife or a gun, I'd be dead today. I'd much rather rely on my head and my mouth or as a last resort, my fists.

    In my opinion, it's a bit foolish and arrogant, perhaps seen to many Rambo movies to think that you can help yourself because you own a gun. You're more likely to get shot for example if two or more intruders are after you and they are armed. In the movies, Rambo may be able to face 100 people but in real life, it doesn't work like that...

    Pull a gun or a knife in a fight and you're more likely to get the same back. If not in that particular instant then later. Again it's pretty arrogant to think you'll come out on top every time.

    And some of you mention your right to carry..Do you feel you should have the right to have grenades? AK47? Uzi? What about communities that vote for elected officials that want stricter gun control? Do they have rights too? The 2nd amendment just isn't clear enough to cover all.
    I totally agree with you. Your mind and mouth come first. Then fists, then impact weapons and then lethal weapons. I've talked my way out of numerous situations over the years, but it's nice to have a few ounces (or pounds) of protection just in case you're left with no other option. Yes, if you pull a weapon and don't know how to use it (or don't have the balls) or someone else gets the drop on you, chances are you're going to die. When your life is on the line and your only chance is to take someone's life, that's when lethal force comes into play.

    I think democracy should be the deciding factor in any situation myself. The people should get what they want. BTW, I'd love to own an UZI, AK and grenades. Unfortunately, it's hard to find a left-handed AK.

  9. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by gilleshk:
    Yes and that is the point of gun control..not to allow any Tom, Dick and Harry to own one...

    Does it make sense to you that you can't drive a car without a test but you can own a gun?
    No, I agree with you. If you'd read my previous posts on this thread, you'd know I support psychological testing and safety tests for firearm ownership.

    Unfortunately, here in HK, the deciding factor for gun ownership is pretty much how much money you have as most people here have spotless records.
    Last edited by jayinhongkong; 28-06-2008 at 12:51 AM.

  10. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by jayinhongkong:
    Yes, if you pull a weapon and don't know how to use it (or don't have the balls) or someone else gets the drop on you, chances are you're going to die. When your life is on the line and your only chance is to take someone's life, that's when lethal force comes into play.
    These would be extremely rare occasions and in my opinion, the risk and danger outweigh the benefits from a personal and societal point of view. As I pointed out, statistics clearly show that to be an accurate perception.

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