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A mature and grown up leader would

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  1. #11

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    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ui7jrQTEFGU

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurtmesome:
    Agree with u Choman.
    thing is East-coast, what japanese historians say themselfs is: on international field they apoligize, but nationally they deny war atrocities.
    Are you suggesting all Japanese historians deny any misdeeds by the nation? Isn't it just a few that stoke the nationalist flames? Isn't this tarring an entire nation with the same brush that suits your views part of the issue regionally?

    No leading public figures have that I am aware denied any of Japan's actions. But yes they do compound the issues by for example not decrying the history books that didn't focus aspects of the war.

    Yes denying the Holocaust is a illegal activity in Germany but that does not stop the academic world from discussing other aspects of what went on during the period leading up to and including WWII. Historikerstreit.
    Last edited by East_coast; 15-03-2015 at 11:33 PM.
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  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurtmesome:
    It is obviously possible to pull out videos showing various view points. The above is emotive but would it really be a crime in Germany to say what the Japanese person said?

    You tube is probably littered with reports on NeoNazism in Germany. Do the regional players in Europe challenge the view of government?
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  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by East_coast:
    It is obviously possible to pull out videos showing various view points. The above is emotive but would it really be a crime in Germany to say what the Japanese person said?

    You tube is probably littered with reports on NeoNazism in Germany. Do the regional players in Europe challenge the view of government?
    Laws against Holocaust denial - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    the neonazi that you see (on YouTube) are small fry. Even though they can be large in numbers (relatively ofcourse) they lack political representation because of the laws against denying the holocaust. Don't forget, it brushes against another very touchy subject, freedom of speech.

    Quite recent the pegida movement came under a lot of criticism. When they started, they were merely a movement against the Islamization of Europe. Then their leader posted a picture of himself as Hitler. They lost a lot of support.
    Germans are taught that, specially in the last few weeks before Hitler committed suicide, Nazi shown its true evil. Sending children to fight, hanging those who resisted. Rather having all Germans die instead of accepting surrender.

    What are Japanese taught? That the emperor didn't know better? That the military command didn't have a clue?
    the YouTube video I posted was to show you what the problem is, in my opinion.
    Right wing politicians denying war atrocities, being aggressive to people who disagree. They hijack the sincerity of Japans attempt at reconciliation between Japan and Its neighbors.
    How can YOU ask any chinese or Korean, to accept Japan's apologies, after seeing this?
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  5. #15

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    A mature and grown up leader would

    Re: Germany

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volksverhetzung


    Sent from my iPhone6+ using GeoClicks

    Last edited by Tom007; 16-03-2015 at 10:02 AM.
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  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom007:
    Yes Holocaust denial is illegal as is inciting hate. But didn't the gentleman say

    "To the soles who sacrificed their lives we bear gratitude on this day of August the 15th"

    No denial or incitement. If a similar speech was given by a Russian or Italian it would not be seen as such a bad thing to say. Does every speech on every occasion need to mention the atrocities carried out?

    Yes it is idiotic to have war criminals in a national shrine and a workaround should be found as it is clearly provocative but there also were probably many valiant men who fought for Japan whom it seems too emotive to be allowed to be honoured.
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  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by East_coast:
    Yes Holocaust denial is illegal as is inciting hate. But didn't the gentleman say

    "To the soles who sacrificed their lives we bear gratitude on this day of August the 15th"

    No denial or incitement. If a similar speech was given by a Russian or Italian it would not be seen as such a bad thing to say. Does every speech on every occasion need to mention the atrocities carried out?

    Yes it is idiotic to have war criminals in a national shrine and a workaround should be found as it is clearly provocative but there also were probably many valiant men who fought for Japan whom it seems too emotive to be allowed to be honoured.
    Eastcoast, it's obvious you are not stupid. Why you in this particular case choose to play dumb is really beyond me but I have to admit: I really don't care. I've stated what I wanted to say.
    if you want to remain naive about it, Japan has done all it should/there are no elements in Japan torpedoing the reconciliation between the Eastern countries, go right ahead.
    As I said, I don't blame my japanese neighbors for being ignorant about the issue, why should I blame you?
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  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cho-man:
    Not exactly. Germany's position has always been clear regarding their responsibilities over atrocities committed by the Nazis. Not so Japan. The Japanese position is less clear and consistent. They censor history books, Germany would not imagine themselves doing so. Abe himself may not have denied WW2 misdeeds, but there are those in his cabinet as well as his supporters who deny Japan committed any wrongdoings during the war.

    It is these denials that is keeping the issue alive and providing ammunition to the Chinese nationalistic zealots.
    Another difference between Japan and Germany is that Germany was basically at war "all the time". It didn't really have time to establish colonies in Europe (or Africa) because it lost the war. On the other hand, Japan was also a colonial power. Korea became a protectorate of Japan in 1905, and was annexed in 1910. So Japan ruled Korea for 40 years. It's a bit like Britain colonising (for example) Kenya. The Colony of Kenya was established in 1920, and Kenya gained independence in 1963. 43 years, about the same time Japan colonised Korea.

    Now the question is: How often has Britain apologised to Kenya for its colonial policies? Never? Are British people sorry for their county's history? I don't think so! They are usually proud, and think that they civilised Kenya, which was living in the stone age when Britain arrived (words a British person actually told me).

    Compared to Britain, Japan is already doing very very well.

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liked:
    Another difference between Japan and Germany is that Germany was basically at war "all the time". It didn't really have time to establish colonies in Europe (or Africa) because it lost the war.
    You need to learn some history, Germany had colonies in Africa and the Pacific.
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  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurtmesome:
    This video is quite interesting.

    At the beginning, the Japanese guy says "To the souls of all the patriots who sacrificed their lives we bear gratitude on this day..."

    1. No, in Germany you wouldn't be arrested for saying this. There are plenty of politicians and people who say this in Germany. The truth is that the Nazis were as bad towards Germans than they were against everybody else, and there are plenty of politicians right now who acknowledge this, although they don't call the Nazi soldiers "patriots", they call them "victims". Many of the Jews gassed were Germans, as were the gay, communist, etc. who were gassed. Do you think you could chose not to become a soldier, if you wanted??

    2. The short speech he made seems to have been taken out of any American politician mouth. Any American politician who doesn't say these words wouldn't be re-elected. I don't think that the crimes committed by Japan are any worse than the crimes committed by USA (something with the help of its allies). Yet, few jump up and criticise US politicians when they make inflammatory statements about bombing other countries or torturing people, or they praise the crimes committed by their soldiers.

    Where is the uproar when this former VP candidate made this statement? The audience applauded!!!

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