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  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by East_coast:
    The sentiment of the discussion quickly went to 'Japan is evil' rather than focussing on what China is doing to stoke the flames of nationalism and widen the gap for any potential mutual understanding and reconciliation.

    This is an interesting article

    http://scholarship.law.berkeley.edu/...7&context=bjil
    Who said "Japan is evil"? Who? They committed atrocities during WW2 which the present day government in Japan has not been entirely honest about. That was what we were discussing. I don't recall anyone saying the Japanese is evil. I admire many aspects of Japanese culture, in fact. We ain't the CCP here.

    Reconciliation? As they say, it takes two to tango, and I don't think either Japan or China is interested in that.
    Last edited by Cho-man; 17-03-2015 at 04:32 PM.

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cho-man:
    Seem like you are defending Japanese's WW2 action to me.
    It was suggested that the atrocious activities that happened during the war would be sustained after the was.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cho-man:
    "Better governance" of Japan? Do you know what kind of government Japan had during WW2? Japan did to its "colonies" during WW2? Do you really think there would be real decolonization? I don't think so.
    It is possible that any foreign power would probably have to assist countries to govern by themselves as the age of empire was coming to a close. Japan had governed Taiwan for a long time and although there was obviously resistance in some areas the GDP per capita growth under the Japanese was was very high in a regional context as was the growth of government institutions.

    To suppose that Japan would continue with barbaric actions in peacetime is just speculation that no one can really know.
    Last edited by East_coast; 17-03-2015 at 04:51 PM.
    HK_Katherine likes this.

  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by East_coast:
    <iframe src="http://knoema.com/resource/embed/mpeqfkc/dffffe80-cc5a-7fff-b4b2-a2fef87b81b4" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" style="height:438px; width:387px;"></iframe>
    Link doesn't work.

    To say it is somehow entirely China's fault cannot be correct. Japan shares the blame. To deny Japan plays no part in this issue seems like an untenable position to me. It is a fact they censor history books. It is fact their politicians (in the governing party, I might add) have denied wrongdoings in WW2. These cannot be brushed aside.

    If you accuse China as immature (and yes they are when they whip up nationalistic zeal), then Japan likewise is immature when it comes to how they treat their WW2 history.
    Last edited by Cho-man; 17-03-2015 at 04:39 PM.

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cho-man:
    Who said "Japan is evil"? Who?
    No one said it.

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cho-man:
    Sorry, have to strongly disagree there. "Better governance" of Japan? Do you know what kind of government Japan had during WW2? Do you know what Japan did to its "colonies" during WW2? Do you really think there would be real decolonization? I don't think so.

    Seem like you are defending Japanese's WW2 action to me.
    Rubbish. I think s/he was pointing out that you cannot possibly predict 60 years of history.

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cho-man:
    Link doesn't work.
    http://scholarship.law.berkeley.edu/...7&context=bjil

    or click the title in the below page

    "Japanese War Guilt and Postwar Responsibilities of Japan" by Onuma Yasuaki

  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cho-man:
    If you accuse China as immature (and yes they are when they whip up nationalistic zeal), then Japan likewise is immature when it comes to how they treat their WW2 history.
    Would you accuse the UK to be immature when it comes to how they treat their colonial history? What about France? Spain? Portugal? What about the US with their post-World War II history? Japan isn't treating its WW2 history any different than most country with a shameful past.

  8. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by HK_Katherine:
    Rubbish. I think s/he was pointing out that you cannot possibly predict 60 years of history.
    So, what if the Nazis won and Europe is conquered by them. Would you say the same thing?

    You cannot predict the future, but you can make pretty confidence speculation on what it will be like.

  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liked:
    Would you accuse the UK to be immature when it comes to how they treat their colonial history? What about France? Spain? Portugal? What about the US with their post-World War II history? Japan isn't treating its WW2 history any different than most country with a shameful past.
    No. Does German government officials deny Nazis atrocities? Does the UK officials deny their colonial misdeeds? But Japan does. Why is it ok for Japan to do so?

  10. #40

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    And? I said from the outset that China is exploiting the issue for political ends, it is not in their interest for a final affirmative answer from Japan over war guilt.

    The issue is that Japan isn't helping when segments within their own government want to deny WW2 atrocities. This could all be solved if Japan issue a blanket statement once and for all on their position regarding WW2 atrocities and ban their officials and supporters from denying such acts. Doing so would deprive China of the opportunity to exploit the issue. But Japan has been unwilling or unable to do so. The Japanese government is just as responsible for this "Apology fatigue" as the Chinese government.

    Keep issuing watered-down or vague statements of contrition over WW2 is clearly not resolving the matter. Rather, make a clear, concise and consistent statement once and for all, that would settled the matter. But the current government has no interest in doing so.
    Last edited by Cho-man; 17-03-2015 at 05:44 PM.