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A mature and grown up leader would

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  1. #1

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    A mature and grown up leader would

    Not arrange national holidays, parades and celebrations of the end of the war with Japan

    China may hold war parade at Marco Polo bridge, site of first conflict with Japan | South China Morning Post

    Japan has apologised many times, given war reparations. Since the end of the WWII it has been an integrated global player.

    There is a worrying trend in the last few years that they are starting to beat the nationalist drum in Japan but in comparison to China or many nations it really is not that worrisome. The checks and balances in the governmental society helps ensure a radical nationalist leader can't stay in power. There are no purges of political enemies, tightening of press, closure of free internet, massive build-up of arms and angry rhetoric to it neighbours.

    But its pacifist constitution probably does need to be revised to allow it a role in ensuring peace in East Asia.

    In Europe when such ceremonies are held Germany & Italy are obviously invited.


  2. #2

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    I just read recently that Abe might water down the apoligies, also quite recent there was a journalist who was quite upset because the newspaper he worked for was saying apologizing to the Japanese people

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    Sprey not done yet, the newspaper said a comfort girl isn't a sexslave. And they had been wrong by printing it like that.

    now what's a apology worth of each administration does with it what it wants?

    ‘Do mention the war,’ Merkel urges Japanese | World news | The Guardian

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    Had to look it up because I was really perplexed when I read it. U never read /heared about this east-coast?

    Yomiuri Shimbun Apologizes on Comfort Women Issue | The Diplomat

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurtmesome:
    Had to look it up because I was really perplexed when I read it. U never read /heared about this east-coast?

    Yomiuri Shimbun Apologizes on Comfort Women Issue | The Diplomat
    Why are they "apologizing" for it? They are giving an accurate description of what the "comfort women" really are. Seems like this is another example of increasing whitewashing in Japan.

    As for EC's original post, it is true that China (and also South Korea, lets not forget about them too) have used/exploited the WW2 Japanese invasion issue to bolster their own sense of nationalism. In that sense, it may not be in the interest of either countries to let the issue rest and "let it go". Keeping it alive serves domestic political purposes. A clear example are those absurd and over-the-top anti-Japanese propaganda dramas that dominate mainland tv channels.

    However, Japan in no way can be let off the hook either. There is an increasing right wing slant in Japanese politics. While it may be a gross exaggeration to say Japan is now returning to the road of militarism, the whitewashing of past atrocities committed by Japan itself is fueling the issue. Even if China and South Korea can be blamed for constantly harping on this issue, Japan itself cannot avoid blame for this situation too. The Japanese's own actions in censoring certain history books or their politicians uttering denials of their country's past misdeeds is one reason why China and South Korea could so easily exploit the issue.

    I mean, imagine some German politician speaking publicly that the Nazi invasion wasn't bad or that the Nazis didn't commit atrocities. What would the reaction be like in the rest of Europe?

    Simply put, all three countries are to be blamed. China and South Korea can be faulted for having no real interest in settling the issue because keeping it alive bolster their own sense of nationalism. Japan is to be blamed for their lack of sincerity. You can understand why some Chinese or Koreans doubt the Japanese government's sincerity when their acceptance of WW2 misdeeds is contradicted with such whitewashing or denial of history.
    Last edited by Cho-man; 14-03-2015 at 10:46 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hurtmesome:
    Sprey not done yet, the newspaper said a comfort girl isn't a sexslave. And they had been wrong by printing it like that.
    Isn't the distinction that a sex slave would have to be enslaved or forcibly coerced into offering sex. The Japanese government's position is that was no programme of enslaving women for sex. They do acknowledge that it did happen in the fog of war but it was not sanctioned by the state. They also acknowledge the life of comfort women was less than comfortable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hurtmesome:
    now what's a apology worth of each administration does with it what it wants?
    Revisionism or progressionism. If the apology is accepted then societies can move on (but not forget) focussing on new initiatives to improve society overall. Abe suggests he is trying to focus on the positive role Japan has played since the war but not forget the war.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hurtmesome;3107097[url=http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/09/merkel-urges-japanese-confront-wartime-conduct:
    ‘Do mention the war,’ Merkel urges Japanese | World news | The Guardian[/url]
    German’s rehabilitation, Merkel said, had only been possible because its former enemies were willing to accept that it had confronted its past.

    “Without these generous gestures of our neighbours this would not have been possible,” she said.


    It is probably that apologies are not accepted that the have to keep being offered adinfinitum and poured over for changes in wording.

    This is an emotive issue and so easy to play Japan as the villain but it is not that clear cut.
    Last edited by East_coast; 15-03-2015 at 08:34 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by East_coast:
    Isn't the distinction that a sex slave would have to be enslaved or forcibly coerced into offering sex. The Japanese government's position is that was no programme of enslaving women for sex. They do acknowledge that it did happen in the fog of war but it was not sanctioned by the state. They also acknowledge the life of comfort women was less than comfortable.



    Revisionism or progressionism. If the apology is accepted then societies can move on (but not forget) focussing on new initiatives to improve society overall. Abe suggests he is trying to focus on the positive role Japan has played since the war but not forget the war.



    German’s rehabilitation, Merkel said, had only been possible because its former enemies were willing to accept that it had confronted its past.

    “Without these generous gestures of our neighbours this would not have been possible,” she said.


    It is probably that apologies are not accepted that the have to keep being offered adinfinitum and poured over for changes in wording.

    This is an emotive issue and so easy to play Japan as the villain but it is not that clear cut.
    Not exactly. Germany's position has always been clear regarding their responsibilities over atrocities committed by the Nazis. Not so Japan. The Japanese position is less clear and consistent. They censor history books, Germany would not imagine themselves doing so. Abe himself may not have denied WW2 misdeeds, but there are those in his cabinet as well as his supporters who deny Japan committed any wrongdoings during the war.

    It is these denials that is keeping the issue alive and providing ammunition to the Chinese nationalistic zealots.
    Last edited by Cho-man; 15-03-2015 at 09:36 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cho-man:
    They censor history books, Germany would not imagine themselves doing so.
    The Japanese Government does not write history books although it does reject / approve them for use in schools but does not mandate their use. In recent times there was a history book that did not focus on the Nanjing Massacre but was only in a handful of schools and all the other books did. It caused significant internalising within the country showing that as a nation they are not comfortable ignoring terrible things that happened.

    Other countries that were victorious are not obliged to teach the atrocities that were carried out in the same campaign. How many Australians are aware of the policy of leaving no man standing while fighting Japan in the Pacific or America carried out the largest conventional bombing of civilians in history killing 100,000 in Japan before dropping Atomic weapons.

    For an apology to work it needs to be given and accepted. If an apology is rebuffed on not acknowledged (most mainlanders have no idea what apologies have been given by Japan)

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    Agree with u Choman.
    thing is East-coast, what japanese historians say themselfs is: on international field they apoligize, but nationally they deny war atrocities. I have not visited the yasukuni shrine myself, but have been told that the museum next to it whitewashes the whole war.

    Also something we shouldn't forget, chinese ppl don't know better then what the CCP/CCTV feeds them.
    Japan however is a democracy AND has freedom of press. Japanese people who call out for the truth are a minority and unpopular. Why is that? Is Japan secretly as propaganda minded as China?

    Big difference with Germany is, by law, people are not allowed to deny the holocaust. And the law is enforced.
    If Japan would take the same laws as Germany regarding the WW2 and mostly ENFORCE it, then I believe chinese people (and Korean) should let the matter lie and move on.

    ps: I don't hate Japanese people nor do I hold the generations after the war responsible for the atrocities. I do hold the Japanese goverment responsible for allowing this wound to fester instead letting it heal.

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  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by East_coast:
    The Japanese Government does not write history books although it does reject / approve them for use in schools but does not mandate their use. In recent times there was a history book that did not focus on the Nanjing Massacre but was only in a handful of schools and all the other books did. It caused significant internalising within the country showing that as a nation they are not comfortable ignoring terrible things that happened.

    Other countries that were victorious are not obliged to teach the atrocities that were carried out in the same campaign. How many Australians are aware of the policy of leaving no man standing while fighting Japan in the Pacific or America carried out the largest conventional bombing of civilians in history killing 100,000 in Japan before dropping Atomic weapons.

    For an apology to work it needs to be given and accepted. If an apology is rebuffed on not acknowledged (most mainlanders have no idea what apologies have been given by Japan)
    Well, would it be alright for the Germans to censor their history books if they discuss Nazi atrocities? I don't think that would be morally acceptable. Same case for the Japanese government, whether they write the books or not, they should not be in a position to censor it. Fact of the matter is, the Japanese government has a rather ambivalent position regarding their own responsibilities over WW2. Their acknowledgement of guilty or recognition of past horrors is frequently contradicted by their politician's statements denying WW2 atrocities. In that light, one could argue that the Chinese don't have to treat their apology sincerely, if the Japanese don't. Sadly, the Chinese have used this opportunity to exploit the issue to the full and whip their citizens to a frenzy of anti-Japanese hysteria. But who was the one giving Beijing this opportunity in the first place? Japan itself.

    Don't get me wrong, I love many aspects of Japan, having actually lived there for a short while and visiting there numerous times, but their rather contradictory position on their own past is something I cannot condone, unfortunately.
    Last edited by Cho-man; 15-03-2015 at 10:20 PM.

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