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Greek Financial Crisis... An end in sight?

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  1. #21

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    Pretty heavy selling in the markets this morning, HK down almost 600, and the Dow down over 200 pre market, but still 100 higher than this mornings lows.


  2. #22

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    In any case, all seems fine:

    Poll: 7 in 10 Greeks Want the Euro at Any Cost | GreekReporter.com

    The Greek government will have an excuse for signing up to the conditions of the other European countries, since the people will agree to them in the poll.

    7jai, East_coast and hin23leung like this.

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liked:
    While I agree with most of what you write, I don't think the present PM of Greece is bad. Basically, past politicians were corrupted and stole a lot of money (or wasted it on silly projects like that Olimpics, which is now wasteland), so now the Greek have two choices: 1) repay the debt, which means 50 years of working their asses off without an improvement in the standard of living, because the debts are too high. 2) have some of their debts forgiven, which is unfair towards those who lent them money, but is fair towards the people who would have to work their asses off. Remember that those who stole/mismanaged the funds are politicians, and not the people. In the meantime, nobody is talking about putting these politicians in prison. I wonder why?? So basically the current PM is exactly what Greece needs.

    I also think that Greece (and Europe) would be better off if it left the Euro. Perhaps Italy, Spain and Portugal can leave the Euro too, and the Euro can be the currency of only France, Germany, Austria, and the Benelux. It would be about 200 million people, so it would still be the 2nd/3rd most important currency in the world, which is what they wanted in the first place.

    I have no doubt that if Greece left Europe, Europe would give them some money to help revive the economy. Nobody needs 20 million Greek migrating to European countries.

    One more thing: I wonder why the European "leaders" are so much against the referendum in Greece? Have they never heard of such a thing as "democracy". They want to tell the Greek people what they need to do, instead of letting them decide?
    I understand why you say Tspiras is what Greece needs right now (especially when comparing to the corrupted Greek politicians); but this guy's ego is way above his head. This is a time for a strong leader who can compromise and negotiate on behalf of the Greek people. If you ask any political leader or any analyst, they will say that this guy is driving off the cliff at full speed - while dragging along his whole country with him.

    What he's doing is completely and utterly ridiculous. I follow his Twitter, and a I read his exerts. This guy is nuts in his approach. His mentality and approach can be summed up in one sentence: "It's my way or the highway; and if you don't go my way, then we can all suffer and burn together". W..t...f? This is not some college debate.... We are talking about the EU here. These are smartest of the smartest people in the world.... and this is the thinking Tspiras has? He's holding everyone for ransom. His asks are not rational nor reasonable. No sane creditor would accept his extreme proposals.

    The worst part out of all this is that the biggest loser will the Greek people. They will bare all the consequences from the problem that their former and current politicians created. It's such a shame.
    Cho-man likes this.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liked:
    One more thing: I wonder why the European "leaders" are so much against the referendum in Greece? Have they never heard of such a thing as "democracy". They want to tell the Greek people what they need to do, instead of letting them decide?
    I think it's because the validity of the referendum is moot. It's a tactic from Tspiras to stall everything and to shift blame away from himself and his party - and towards the Greek public.

    1) If you really had the genuine intention to let the Greek people vote; this would've been done a month ago (not a few days before Greece goes to default). The Greek parliament had 5 months to renegotiate, and analyze a better package. The Greek people has 5 days to do the same analysis on their end to see if they will accept the current bailout package. Clearly there is no real level of "good intent" coming from Tspiras in asking the Greek people to vote. If he did, he would've done this referendum months ago. I think he's just shifting blame away from him, and towards the people of Greece now.

    2) It's a complicated proposal. There is 11-12 million people in Greece; with different education levels and backgrounds. It is nearly impossible to properly explain, decipher, and translate everything to every citizen in a matter of 5 Days (the referendum is held on July 5). The Greek people will essentially be voting for something they know VERY little about, especially when it comes to the "terms and conditions". When I look at any contract, there are always terms and conditions, and if even simple minded people like ME get confused at that....how about the entire Greek population and this bailout extension proposal? They would be completely lost! They would just be voting on their feelings.... and not logic.

    3) This one is probably the most important point. The Greek people will be voting on a package that won't even EXIST anymore on July 5. The bailout ends June 30th. If Greece misses the payment on the bailout tomorrow, the IMF cannot lend them anymore money (as per their IMF rules if I recall correctly). This means that ALL bailout negotiations will cease and will be moot. So the Greek people will be voting on absolutely nothing - as the contract will not be valid anymore.

    Tspiras is a complete joke.

    P.s. Sorry for my constant rants. I'm just bored at work and upset at my stocks being in the RED lol.
    Last edited by 7jai; 29-06-2015 at 11:46 AM.
    shri, Elegiaque, Mat and 1 others like this.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cwbguy:
    Pretty heavy selling in the markets this morning, HK down almost 600, and the Dow down over 200 pre market, but still 100 higher than this mornings lows.
    But is this a result of the greeks or the Chinese stock market tanking 20%.....

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Open Casket:
    But is this a result of the greeks or the Chinese stock market tanking 20%.....
    Pretty sure this is Greece. China markets should've been up today, since the China gov't did a number of stimulus boosts this past Saturday afternoon.

  7. #27

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    Hmm...good buying opportunity eventually....

    I actually am hoping for a Grexit. Time to end the charade. Yes there will be the financial impact, but it won't be as grim as the doomsayers say.

    Otherwise, Greece will just forever be a weight around the EU's neck.

    Last edited by Cho-man; 29-06-2015 at 12:16 PM.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by 7jai:
    I think it's because the validity of the referendum is moot. It's a tactic from Tspiras to stall everything and to shift blame away from himself and his party - and towards the Greek public.

    1) If you really had the genuine intention to let the Greek people vote; this would've been done a month ago (not a few days before Greece goes to default). The Greek parliament had 5 months to renegotiate, and analyze a better package. The Greek people has 5 days to do the same analysis on their end to see if they will accept the current bailout package. Clearly there is no real level of "good intent" coming from Tspiras in asking the Greek people to vote. If he did, he would've done this referendum months ago. I think he's just shifting blame away from him, and towards the people of Greece now.

    2) It's a complicated proposal. There is 11-12 million people in Greece; with different education levels and backgrounds. It is nearly impossible to properly explain, decipher, and translate everything to every citizen in a matter of 5 Days (the referendum is held on July 5). The Greek people will essentially be voting for something they know VERY little about, especially when it comes to the "terms and conditions". When I look at any contract, there are always terms and conditions, and if even simple minded people like ME get confused at that....how about the entire Greek population and this bailout extension proposal? They would be completely lost! They would just be voting on their feelings.... and not logic.

    3) This one is probably the most important point. The Greek people will be voting on a package that won't even EXIST anymore on July 5. The bailout ends June 30th. If Greece misses the payment on the bailout tomorrow, the IMF cannot lend them anymore money (as per their IMF rules if I recall correctly). This means that ALL bailout negotiations will cease and will be moot. So the Greek people will be voting on absolutely nothing - as the contract will not be valid anymore.

    Tspiras is a complete joke.

    P.s. Sorry for my constant rants. I'm just bored at work and upset at my stocks being in the RED lol.
    Surely, it is the role of the government (Mr. Tspiras) to negotiate the best possible deal, and then ask his citizens if they agree. This is called DEMOCRACY (invented by the Greek, by the way). I salute him for doing this referendum. This is unlike, I should add, the British politicians who keep saying "vote for us, and you will get a referendum on whether to stay or leave the EU". And then at the next election "vote for us, and this time we are REALLY going to have a referendum", and then at the next election "...." zzzzzz. And this for what? 20 years? So that's democracy in your book? You vote for politicians who the day after being elected break all their promises (like the lib-dem)???

    And how long do you really need to understand a proposal? These negotiations have gone on for months. Surely, the Greek have been following the news, and know what is going on. I think the main points can be summarised in 3 pages (or then 2 pages). 1 hour is enough to make up your mind, and they get 8 days. More than enough!

    Come on. The IMF and Europe won't just say "fuck you, it's too late" if Greece comes up a couple of days later. It would be crazy, specially since Europe doesn't actually want Greece to leave.
    hin23leung likes this.

  9. #29

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    Original Post Deleted
    But really, what are the options? Greece has made a lot of sacrifices over the last years. For what? To bail out German banks (and other banks). Greece still owes 280 billion Euros.If you divide this by 11 million people, that's 25,000 Euros a person (from babies to old folks). I think a default is better for everybody. Except, who is going to refund the German banks, who lent the bulk? The German government would have to refund them, instead of all European governments.

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/factbo...024201697.html

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by 7jai:
    I understand why you say Tspiras is what Greece needs right now (especially when comparing to the corrupted Greek politicians); but this guy's ego is way above his head. This is a time for a strong leader who can compromise and negotiate on behalf of the Greek people. If you ask any political leader or any analyst, they will say that this guy is driving off the cliff at full speed - while dragging along his whole country with him.
    Come on, I think Greece can get back on its feet pretty quickly. Look at Argentina. They defaulted, and a couple of years later they were ok again. They just have to have some honest politicians with the right policies, instead of the business as usual 'you lend me money and I spend it and you lend me some more'. Maybe a shock therapy is exactly what they need to get a grip and stop expecting freebies.
    hin23leung likes this.

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