Like Tree39Likes

Cruz - See you in 2020!

Closed Thread
Page 3 of 6 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 LastLast
  1. #21

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Pampanga, Philippines
    Posts
    29,764
    Quote Originally Posted by East_coast:
    Unfortunately no political party has suggested a referendum on changes to the election model. When the pigs at the trough decide who can come and join the party it is unlikely they will suggest 'fair' improvements.

    The public should decide how and who is elected.
    Yes it is always the problem, the people who vote on reforms are the people who need reforming. I watched a programme about an attempt to get through a law in the UK to make it an offence for elected representatives to knowingly lie to the public. Guess how far that one went

  2. #22

    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    猴山
    Posts
    23,652
    Quote Originally Posted by Ern:
    Not much to get upset about really, they're all the same, well nearly.

    The Political Compass

    yep

    but a little more extreme to the right than last time



    Last edited by East_coast; 05-05-2016 at 07:04 AM.
    hullexile and Ern like this.

  3. #23

    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    薄扶林
    Posts
    47,964

    Election in the US is rigged over generations.

    Changing district boundaries, removing voting rights of prisoners, and even providing a pathway to citizenship for illegals changes outcomes of future elections.

    Going to start another thread about this.... If I can figure out a coherentone of thought.

    Last edited by shri; 05-05-2016 at 07:24 AM.

  4. #24

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Pampanga, Philippines
    Posts
    29,764
    Quote Originally Posted by East_coast:

    yep

    but a little more extreme to the right than last time



    The BIG problem for the US is that in effect a large number of the population is disenfranchised as they have no one to vote for who represents their views. I am sure the US is not alone in this but it is very obvious there.

  5. #25

    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    薄扶林
    Posts
    47,964
    Quote Originally Posted by hullexile:
    The BIG problem for the US is that in effect a large number of the population is disenfranchised as they have no one to vote for who represents their views. I am sure the US is not alone in this but it is very obvious there.
    Not sure if I'd call that disenfranchised. My issue is - large blocks of the population cannot vote or are forced into districts where their vote does not matter.

  6. #26

    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    3,015
    Quote Originally Posted by shri:
    Election in the US is rigged over generations.

    Changing district boundaries, removing voting rights of prisoners, and even providing a pathway to citizenship for illegals changes outcomes of future elections.

    Going to start another thread about this.... If I can figure out a coherentone of thought.



    The term is called gerrymandering, and yes, it is a huge problem with the democratic system.

    The other issue you touch on is voter ID laws. Some people would say you should have to have an ID to vote to prove you are who you say you are. However, some would say that discriminates against the poor and minorities who might not have an ID. In the US, your ID is typically your driver's license (though you can easily just get an ID too) and many poor people don't bother to get one.

    There is also the issue of the electorial college.

    But really, the biggest threat to democracy is the money and a fair/honest media. You need to keep money out of politics, but more importantly you need to keep money out of the media. It used to be that the media reported the stories they thought were important. Now, the media reports what makes money. Most of the media is owned by the same people. Thankfully, we have alternative sources of media these days, notably Facebook and Twitter. I don't think Bernie Sanders would still be beating Clinton (Indiana) without Twitter.
    shri and hullexile like this.

  7. #27

    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    薄扶林
    Posts
    47,964
    The other issue you touch on is voter ID laws.
    And laws which prevent felons from voting.

    Thankfully, we have alternative sources of media these days, notably Facebook and Twitter.
    Don't count on Facebook being independent as such. Its all rather fucked up and depressing.

    The news curation team writes headlines for each of the topics, along with a three-sentence summary of the news story it’s pegged to, and choose an image or Facebook video to attach to the topic. The news curator also chooses the “most substantive post” to summarize the topic, usually from a news website. The former contractors Gizmodo interviewed said they were asked to write neutral headlines, and encouraged to promote a video only if it had been uploaded to Facebook. They were also told to select articles from a list of preferred media outlets that included sites like the New York Times, Time, Variety, and other traditional outlets. They would regularly avoid sites like World Star Hip Hop, The Blaze, and Breitbart, but were never explicitly told to suppress those outlets. They were also discouraged from mentioning Twitter by name in headlines and summaries, and instead asked to refer to social media in a broader context.

  8. #28

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    13,099
    Quote Originally Posted by Open Casket:
    Some people would say you should have to have an ID to vote to prove you are who you say you are. However, some would say that discriminates against the poor and minorities who might not have an ID. In the US, your ID is typically your driver's license (though you can easily just get an ID too) and many poor people don't bother to get one.
    Although I'm left & libertarian leaning on most issues, this is one that perplexes me.
    Perhaps I've lived in Hong Kong with my trusty ID card for too long...

    I cant get my head around why people would expect to do something as important as voting, with no id whatsoever.

    Why should those who cant be bothered to get an ID expect to vote.

    That one issue is just baffling to me...
    rathunt likes this.

  9. #29

    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    3,015
    Quote Originally Posted by HowardCoombs:
    Although I'm left & libertarian leaning on most issues, this is one that perplexes me.
    Perhaps I've lived in Hong Kong with my trusty ID card for too long...

    I cant get my head around why people would expect to do something as important as voting, with no id whatsoever.

    Why should those who cant be bothered to get an ID expect to vote.

    That one issue is just baffling to me...

    Its the left wing democrats in the USA. Do you think illegal immigrants should be given Drivers Licenses? Do you think someone should be able to fly in on a plane from anywhere in the world, give birth in the USA and all of a sudden become a citizen?

    For the left wing democratics its all about changing the demographics to there favor, and its working. People without IDs overwhelming would vote democratic.


    ** I should add that 11 percent of U.S. citizens—more than 21 million Americans—do not have government-issued photo identifications. But among particular groups, the percentage lacking acceptable documentation is even higher. For example, among African Americans, 25 percent of voting-age citizens lack government-issued documents. This compares with 8 percent of voting-age whites.
    Last edited by Open Casket; 05-05-2016 at 08:20 AM.

  10. #30

    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    薄扶林
    Posts
    47,964
    For the left wing democratics its all about changing the demographics to there favor, and its working. People without IDs overwhelming would vote democratic.
    Not like the white conservatives are blameless either.