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Angela Merkel is on the ropes

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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by HK_Katherine:
    Try and imagine for a moment what would happen if your world was turned upside down by a war, that your home was being bombed and your children killed, that you had no water, power or food. And then imagine that the rest of the world just wanted to ignore you. Pity our civilisation when nobody takes in refugees. And I pity people who appear unable to imagine how hard it must be for them. Thank goodness Merkel was there when she was.

    Perhaps being from East Germany she could remember was desperation was like. Perhaps she is just a good person. Who knows. But there are too many people in the West who have never experienced hardship and forget about the horrors of war. I have never experienced it, but I try to make sure I learn about it. When all the refugees and soldiers from the last wars are gone, the young people of today will start another war, because there is no-one left to explain why populism, racism and hate of others is actually such a bad idea.
    Look at where the people who received asylum in Europe come from:

    http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statist...ts%29_YB17.png

    Most of them didn't come from Syria. And most of those from Syria didn't come from a war zone.

    In any case, my point is that Merkel decided to invite them, and then told everybody they need to take up some. She is not the president of Europe. She has been elected by 25 million Germans (give and take). She can't impose her will on 350 million Europeans (give an take). That's not how democracy is supposed to work.
    mrgoodkat and Ern like this.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrgoodkat:
    Try to imagine a population that has constantly been told that there is no money to adjust pensions or healthcare to combat rising costs or built better public facilities and suddenly the government has upwards of 50 billion euros to spend on "refugees" who traveled through tens of safe countries to get to the one with the most benefits.
    Let's see.

    First they go to Turkey - a place with now huge repression and a government that's ripped apart democracy. Would I want to stay there? No.

    They they take a perilous sea journey to Greece - a place with > 25% unemployment so there is little chance they will be able to find a job and support their families. Makes sense to keep going.

    If walking, perhaps the next places are the Balkans - again high unemployment, all their native populations are leaving to find jobs elsewhere, the Government has built huge walls to keep refugees out - so they are unwanted and unable to find jobs. Keep going.

    Finally get to Germany. A place with a booming economy and a (still) large number of people who are friendly and welcoming. Why wouldn't you want to stay there? Try looking at a bigger picture and not just the limited statistics given to you by right wing politicians with an agenda.

    For example - perhaps Easty can find us some statistics of refugees who are claiming benefits vs those that are working (after various periods of time). Because the ones I have seen *but didn't save indicate that refugees are MORE likely to work and LESS likely to claim benefits than natives of the same country.... so who exactly are the scroungers?
    Jerome HK likes this.

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Markx:
    Look at where the people who received asylum in Europe come from:

    http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statist...ts%29_YB17.png

    Most of them didn't come from Syria. And most of those from Syria didn't come from a war zone.

    did you even look at the graph you just posted?

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by civil_servant:
    European voters.

    Wont have that issue in HK since can't vote so yep.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Markx:
    Germany has basically control over the policies of the European Union. After Merkel invited all Muslims in the world to come to Europe she told all member states that they have to accept their share - through the European commission:

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-take-refugees

    That's one of the main reasons the UK got fed up and decided to leave. Go Merkel Go before others do the same.
    Powerful video

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2Im3l5Q66I
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  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by HK_Katherine:
    populism, racism and hate of others
    What if your neighbours forced you to share your flat (or boat, right?) with people they invited, because they invited too many and don't have enough space? Wouldn't you become racist, populist and hate these intruders?

    Do you think inviting millions of people with a completely alien culture is going to reduce populism, racism and hatred of others, or increase it? Merkel's actions are not the solution, they are the cause of the problem.
    mrgoodkat likes this.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Markx:
    What if your neighbours forced you to share your flat (or boat, right?) with people they invited, because they invited too many and don't have enough space? Wouldn't you become racist, populist and hate these intruders?

    Do you think inviting millions of people with a completely alien culture is going to reduce populism, racism and hatred of others, or increase it? Merkel's actions are not the solution, they are the cause of the problem.
    Yadayadayada.

    Letting them die at the border is indeed the best solution - imagine if Germany (the former Nazi nation) had military at the border to push back the immigrants (because that's the only way to do it if you think about it)...

    IMAGINE the International Uproar. Merkel had little choices - but the blinds will be blinds..
    HK_Katherine likes this.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by HK_Katherine:
    did you even look at the graph you just posted?
    Yes. Have you?

    Look, Muslims have been at war with each other for 1,500 years. Just open the newspaper and you will see. They need to sort out their problem (starting with their religion). I am happy to pay 5% of my salary for the rest of my life for a Marshall plan to develop their countries. But some of them coming to Europe isn't going to solve anything. They are just bringing their problems to Europe. E.g.:

    Refugee shelter burnt down in Germany after dispute among asylum seekers over Ramadan meals | The Independent

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Markx:
    Yes. Have you?

    Look, Muslims have been at war with each other for 1,500 years. Just open the newspaper and you will see. They need to sort out their problem (starting with their religion). I am happy to pay 5% of my salary for the rest of my life for a Marshall plan to develop their countries. But some of them coming to Europe isn't going to solve anything. They are just bringing their problems to Europe. E.g.:

    Refugee shelter burnt down in Germany after dispute among asylum seekers over Ramadan meals | The Independent
    They're integrating into German society. Burning down refugee shelter is a German tradition that goes back over thirty years. Strange you're just picking up on that now.
    Morrison, Markx and hullexile like this.

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mat:
    Yadayadayada.

    Letting them die at the border is indeed the best solution - imagine if Germany (the former Nazi nation) had military at the border to push back the immigrants (because that's the only way to do it if you think about it)...

    IMAGINE the International Uproar. Merkel had little choices - but the blinds will be blinds..

    It's not about taking in all the refugees, it's about having no effective plan managing them. They will have a right to permanent residence after just 3 years, are eligible for social benefits and won't even get deported if they have a criminal records. That's a much better deal than most legal immigrants or dependents of German citizens are getting. It's in effect a mass permanent immigration through the backdoor.
    Markx likes this.

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