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Count Dankula, has been convicted! Bye bye free speech! WTF?

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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by kimwy66:
    Here's the problem with this, it is a very fine line between policing hateful words and authoritarian thought policing. We only have to look north to see how that turns out for human rights.

    And the definition of hateful is entirely subjective. In the UK it isn't the intent of the 'perpetrator', as is required in most crimes to prove criminality, but the perception of the victim, or anyone else who heard it. Given the snowflake tendencies these days, the police are going to be spending all their time on ' He said, she said' childishness.

    It is hugely problematic and dangerous to make telling a joke a crime. I would rather hear 1000 speeches by Holocaust deniers and be able to refute it and show it for the anti-semitic bullshit that it is, than have that hate driven underground unchallenged.

    Here is the Met's take Hate Crimes:



    When those policing the law are inclined to a hot take rather than understanding the law, it's not going to end well:



    The Met has a problem with hate-crime. It can't explain what it means. - BarristerBlogger
    Yes it is a fine line but one that has to be drawn in a civilised country. Many countries have hate speech laws and many of them date back decades. Strangely enough none of them have turned into oppressive regimes.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by hullexile:
    Yes it is a fine line but one that has to be drawn in a civilised country. Many countries have hate speech laws and many of them date back decades. Strangely enough none of them have turned into oppressive regimes.
    I'm going to have to help you out:

    context: noun

    the circumstances that form the setting for an event, statement, or idea, and in terms of which it can be fully understood.
    "the proposals need to be considered in the context of new European directives"
    synonyms: circumstances, conditions, surroundings, factors, state of affairs;
    Correct, hate speech laws have been around for years. A climate of naming everything that someone disagrees with as hate speech, and governmental administrators and enforcers that have bought into this culture, is the new context that makes this an issue.

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by hullexile:
    Yes it is a fine line but one that has to be drawn in a civilised country. Many countries have hate speech laws and many of them date back decades. Strangely enough none of them have turned into oppressive regimes.
    I don't think that's the problem here hull. For example, doing the Nazi salute in Germany is illegal and everyone knows that.

    The UK definition seems to be very unclear and entirely subjective.

    And, what he did was clearly a joke. If you haven't watched the video, I can't really see what you bring to this debate...I don't mean that as an insult either hull.

    The way he used 'Gas the Jews' is pretty similar to the way you said 'Kill all n*****s'...

    I don't think you or he were being deliberately racist, but I guarantee there are some people who would be deeply hurt scrolling through this thread to see that word.

    Does that make sense or not?

    Context.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by SpeakCantonese:
    Did you watch the video?

    If you did, and I think you didn't, you would understand the irony of your use of the 'n' word to illustrate your point. There is a context.

    By the way, do you know how offensive it is to many people that you used the 'n' word?
    You do understand the concept of context don't you?

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by hullexile:
    You do understand the concept of context don't you?
    Yes. Do you understand irony?

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by kimwy66:
    I'm going to have to help you out: Context
    Context matters, yes. I'm sure if he wanted to make his dog look like a Nazi by giving the salute he would've gotten away with it. But saying 'gas the ___' 23 times adds little value here as as you can't actually teach the dog to say these words. Thus it doesn't make the dog look any more evil.

    Quote Originally Posted by kimwy66:
    Correct, hate speech laws have been around for years. A climate of naming everything that someone disagrees with as hate speech, and governmental administrators and enforcers that have bought into this culture, is the new context that makes this an issue.
    Nah, the Internet is just giving a platform to idiots like Dankula. Even SpeakCantonese admitted he's an idiot. Now tell me, why do you waste your time on this idiot? He gets a sentence, learns how not to be an idiot, and life goes on.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by hullexile:
    Of course you can and rightly so. Free speech comes with responsibility.

    You never heard of slander by the way, or contempt?
    If you falsely accuse someone in court then it's a crime to lie to a judge. In all other situations, words is just words. Words is wind. In my opinion, no one should ever be convicted for words. People should be able to express any idea, if you don't like it you can challenge it. There is offensive, dark humor that some find hilarious and some get offended. Just because it's offensive, doesn't mean people should be arrested for saying it. No one should ever be arrested for expressing whatever idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by HK_Katherine:
    Just like the right to bear Arms, Americans appear to know no limits on their rights to free speech.
    I personally think Americans do it right when it comes to free speech, they are the sensible ones. Words are wind, ideas are ideas. You can argue against them if you don't like it or just ignore it. Words aren't guns, you can't shoot people with words. They should be arresting real criminals and not thought, word and joke policing.
    Last edited by Tea addict; 21-03-2018 at 10:01 AM.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tea addict:
    I personally think Americans do it right when it comes to free speech, they are the sensible ones. Words are wind, ideas are ideas. You can argue against them if you don't like it or just ignore it. Words aren't guns, you can't shoot people with words. They should be arresting real criminals and not thought, word and joke policing.
    not these days. look at their entire system.
    they are even denying their own democratic first pass the poll electorate college system just because the winner is someone they deem not politically right.. its ridiculous

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tea addict:
    If you falsely accuse someone in court then it's a crime to lie to a judge. In all other situations, words is just words. Words is wind. In my opinion, no one should ever be convicted for words. People should be able to express any idea, if you don't like it you can challenge it. There is offensive, dark humor that some find hilarious and some get offended. Just because it's offensive, doesn't mean people should be arrested for saying it. No one should ever be arrested for expressing whatever idea.


    I personally think Americans do it right when it comes to free speech, they are the sensible ones. Words are wind, ideas are ideas. You can argue against them if you don't like it or just ignore it. Words aren't guns, you can't shoot people with words. They should be arresting real criminals and not thought, word and joke policing.
    We will have to agree to disagree. Words destroy careers, words make people kill themselves, words incite hatred and murder (and yes I am aware of the irony of what I am saying regarding a certain President ).

    Have you ever been the subject of public attack? I can tell you it is far from pleasant, it caused me several years of mental illness which is ongoing.
    TheBrit likes this.

  10. #30

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    Original Post Deleted
    Needs more extreme examples for more dramatic effect.
    SpeakCantonese likes this.

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