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Shamima Begum, Bethnal Green girl who fled to Syria

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  1. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by hullexile:
    Are you sure. The Home Sec said they would not remove citizenship if that would make someone stateless. That surely means she must have another citizenship.
    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1981/61/section/40

    But that does not prevent the Secretary of State from making an order under subsection (2) to deprive a person of a citizenship status if
    (a)the citizenship status results from the person's naturalisation,
    (b)the Secretary of State is satisfied that the deprivation is conducive to the public good because the person, while having that citizenship status, has conducted him or herself in a manner which is seriously prejudicial to the vital interests of the United Kingdom, any of the Islands, or any British overseas territory, and
    (c)the Secretary of State has reasonable grounds for believing that the person is able, under the law of a country or territory outside the United Kingdom, to become a national of such a country or territory.
    Based on the above, as long as he thinks she can become a national of another country, he can revoke the citizenship.
    shri and hullexile like this.

  2. #32

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    Shamima doesn't have another passport, the Home Office has decided that because her mother is Bangladeshi, Shamima can apply for citizenship by descent of Bangladesh. She was born in UK to parents legally settled, she has never been to Bangladesh, and I wonder what the Bangladesh government will make of this.

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  3. #33

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    In the article I cited above, it was found to be illegal to revoke the citizenship of Bangladeshi-descent citizens born in the UK who did not register Bangladeshi nationality by age 21 (Bangladesh rules). So she can win on this point. But curious if they say she can get Dutch citizenship through her husband...

    Last edited by MABinPengChau; 20-02-2019 at 04:09 PM.
    shri likes this.

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by kimwy66:
    Shamima doesn't have another passport, the Home Office has decided that because her mother is Bangladeshi, Shamima can apply for citizenship by descent of Bangladesh. She was born in UK to parents legally settled, she has never been to Bangladesh, and I wonder what the Bangladesh government will make of this.
    Yes but read above. The standard is "the Secretary of State has reasonable grounds for believing that the person is able, under the law of a country or territory outside the United Kingdom, to become a national of such a country or territory."

    So it's irrelevant if she currently has another passport. As long as the Home Sec believes she can get another citizenship he is entitled to act.

    Now she and her family will have to prove that she cannot and is made stateless, if they want to appeal.
    MABinPengChau likes this.

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by merchantms:
    Prisons are full of people who experienced psychological damage in their childhoods. At a certain point personal responsibility kicks in.
    Speaking of personal responsibility, what exactly is this numbskulls crime? I know she married some baddie of some sort but did she actually and personally harm someone? Maim someone? Kill?

    I dont believe for one second that she didnt know children were killed in the Manchester bombing. If you watch that video I posted she does a horrible job feigning surprise. To me that reads as insincerity not damage.
    Maybe she did know about the dead kids, maybe she didn't and maybe she thinks its not her fault.

    I'm not seeing the need for all this hand wringing and pearl clutching when the killers are out there still killing. This one is clearly a misguided idiot but not much more IMHO.
    Elegiaque likes this.

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by HowardCoombs:
    Speaking of personal responsibility, what exactly is this numbskulls crime? I know she married some baddie of some sort but did she actually and personally harm someone? Maim someone? Kill?
    It's illegal in the UK to join a banned terrorist group. So she's guilty of at least one crime.

    Beyond this who knows, there may be phone or computer evidence of her promoting or participating in violence, or recruiting others.
    shri and kimwy66 like this.

  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by merchantms:
    It's illegal in the UK to join a banned terrorist group. So she's guilty of at least one crime.
    Great, open and shut case. Take her to trial, it should be easy to prove guilt, strip her of citizenship and deport.
    Beyond this who knows, there may be phone or computer evidence of her promoting or participating in violence, or recruiting others.
    Thats a lot to imagine but I'm sure if there is evidence, it will come out at trial.

    What I don't get is why she would need to feel remorse or apologise for actions of others. Unless she had some hand in it, she only needs to atone for her stupidity - not the crimes committed by the thousands of others.

    Do we expect the same from those who marry into other enemies of the UK ?
    Did the extended and very rich Bin Laden family ever apologise for the actions of their family?
    Did the Saudis ever apologise for 911, seeing as almost all the participants and the funding came from there?

    She is a numbskull - convict her for her own crimes and then move along. Not much else to see here.
    coffee_break likes this.

  8. #38

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    One could ponder as to why, when 400 Jihadis have returned to the UK from Syria already, one woman, who left as a 15 year-old, has spent the intervening 4 years being pregnant & giving birth 3 times, has resulted in 3 days of headlines and reports from all major news outlets.

    There is a document in existence that outlines how the UK govt would deal with British women who went to join ISIS and may now be seeking to return. It's sensitively written and speaks much of support & appropriate legal measures. Its foreword was written by Sajid Javid.

    https://twitter.com/BarristerSecret/...39734176686080


  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by kimwy66:
    One could ponder as to why, when 400 Jihadis have returned to the UK from Syria already, one woman, who left as a 15 year-old, has spent the intervening 4 years being pregnant & giving birth 3 times, has resulted in 3 days of headlines and reports from all major news outlets.

    There is a document in existence that outlines how the UK govt would deal with British women who went to join ISIS and may now be seeking to return. It's sensitively written and speaks much of support & appropriate legal measures. Its foreword was written by Sajid Javid.

    https://twitter.com/BarristerSecret/...39734176686080
    I'm guessing he knows that his decision will be overturned on appeal but he's taken a "tough stance" because he's a politician and that's what the public seems to want.
    MABinPengChau likes this.

  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by merchantms:
    Her first interview showed a similar lack of remorse and the tone was much gentler.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SooDVtENq9c
    But I don't get it... she was 15, probably being rebellious and frustrated with her life. Now she's had to live through seeing 2 of her babies die. Why is she supposed to be remorseful to the whole of the UK population? Why was that BBC interviewer hounding her for being sorry about Manchester?

    And she's STILL just 19!!!

    I actually sent in a complaint to the BBC about that interview.
    Last edited by Elegiaque; 20-02-2019 at 06:10 PM.

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