Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

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  1. #161

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    Quote Originally Posted by gunsnroses:
    Agreed, but, till then how'd we survive? how does a common man feel safe while going to work? how does his wife not be anxious every day when he goes to work till he comes back home alive and in one piece? how does the parents not worry for their kids going to school, going to playground?
    Every country has to make its environs safe so that its populace can breathe safely.
    Geez, you sound like you're living in a war zone... There are way more people that die from accidents or diseases than terrorism. Do you worry that every day they will come home in one piece because of traffic? Way more kids get injured playing on a swing than being killed by bombs so maybe you shouldn't take them to the playground at all.

    There is no immediate solution to terrorism and wars, bad stuff can and will continue to happen every day for the rest of time. That's the nature of being human with all our failings and weaknesses. The day you eradicate terrorism, you'll be able to eradicate corruptness, envy, greed for money and power, hate, religion, poverty etc...

    Terrorism, disease, accidents are random acts. If you're in the wrong place at the wrong time, it'll happen so why worry about it... You act sensibly and live your life and see what happens, not much else to do really.

    I've traveled to many places that are considered risky(central-south america, africa, middle east) I don't worry about it... I'm not going to live my life hiding under a bed and be miserable because something might happen... What's the point? I could cross the street and be hit by a runaway bus tomorrow or a bomb might explode or maybe I get cancer... What's the difference? I'll take the bomb or the bus for 100, I hate the idea of cancer and watching yourself become nothing over a period of time.

  2. #162

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    Quote Originally Posted by gilleshk:
    Geez, you sound like you're living in a war zone... There are way more people that die from accidents or diseases than terrorism. Do you worry that every day they will come home in one piece because of traffic? Way more kids get injured playing on a swing than being killed by bombs so maybe you shouldn't take them to the playground at all.

    There is no immediate solution to terrorism and wars, bad stuff can and will continue to happen every day for the rest of time. That's the nature of being human with all our failings and weaknesses. The day you eradicate terrorism, you'll be able to eradicate corruptness, envy, greed for money and power, hate, religion, poverty etc...

    Terrorism, disease, accidents are random acts. If you're in the wrong place at the wrong time, it'll happen so why worry about it... You act sensibly and live your life and see what happens, not much else to do really.

    I've traveled to many places that are considered risky(central-south america, africa, middle east) I don't worry about it... I'm not going to live my life hiding under a bed and be miserable because something might happen... What's the point? I could cross the street and be hit by a runaway bus tomorrow or a bomb might explode or maybe I get cancer... What's the difference? I'll take the bomb or the bus for 100, I hate the idea of cancer and watching yourself become nothing over a period of time.
    I don't worry about accidents either! I am arguing not the bad things that could happen anytime to anyone, to me as well. I am fine and always prepared for that. I was stuck in the rains in Mumbai in july 2005 when the whole city literally submerged in water.
    My worry is about ppl who'd plant bomb and shoot and take innocent lives. I lived in Mumbai and not so long ago when there was a bombblast in mumbai's local train, I was there and have seen it all.

  3. #163

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    Quote Originally Posted by gunsnroses:
    I don't worry about accidents either! I am arguing not the bad things that could happen anytime to anyone, to me as well. I am fine and always prepared for that. I was stuck in the rains in Mumbai in july 2005 when the whole city literally submerged in water.
    My worry is about ppl who'd plant bomb and shoot and take innocent lives. I lived in Mumbai and not so long ago when there was a bombblast in mumbai's local train, I was there and have seen it all.
    I understand your anger and frustration. But that is exactly what they want, I am just arguing not to give in to them.

  4. #164

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    Quote Originally Posted by climber07:
    Those who are incapable of compassion, deserve none.
    How do you know they are incapable of compassion? Have you lived their life? Does one act that may be committed under duress erase their humanity?

    Quote Originally Posted by climber07:
    Short-Term: Information,
    Medium-Term: Labor / Organ Harvesting

    There is absolutely no reason to kill these bastards off right away (you're only turning them into martyrs for their cause). For example: There is a very long list of sick people who are waiting for organ donations....... My view is: use those who take lives to save lives.
    Now that's very civilized, stooping even lower than them simply as a revenge. All it would do is inflame people some more and create greater rifts that can never be resolved. On top of it, who gets those punishments? The poor illiterate who was essentially forced to do it or the masterminds being it? That's the problem with extreme punishments, it's hard to take back when you make mistakes and there are always mistakes. Did the British ever solve the Irish problem by using more extreme violence? The only way to reduce these problems is to negotiate with the more moderate elements in the hope that most of the population will follow. You punish the offenders fairly according to the rule of law. When you start making Guantanamo rules, you become just as bad as the other side because essentially you say that the ends justifies the means which is exactly the motto of terrorists.

  5. #165

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    Quote Originally Posted by gunsnroses:
    I don't worry about accidents either! I am arguing not the bad things that could happen anytime to anyone, to me as well. I am fine and always prepared for that. I was stuck in the rains in Mumbai in july 2005 when the whole city literally submerged in water.
    My worry is about ppl who'd plant bomb and shoot and take innocent lives. I lived in Mumbai and not so long ago when there was a bombblast in mumbai's local train, I was there and have seen it all.
    So what's the difference between a flood and a bomb? You die drowning or you die form a bomb? What if the train derailed instead of being bombed? It's just as random and terrorist attacks are so rare and so few people actually die that statistically it makes no sense... I'd wager that way more people die in Mumbai in a month from accidents than from that terrorist attack so that should be more of a worry than a random bomb.
    Last edited by gilleshk; 28-11-2008 at 05:04 PM.

  6. #166

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    Quote Originally Posted by climber07:
    You'd be surprised Mat. Psychological torture is significantly more powerful than anything physical.

    Besides, a quick death by explosion is a much easier concept to get accustomed to than unknown duration of suffering......that's the point! So many here think that effectiveness of torture is a hypothetical question.....it WORKS.. that's why it's used.
    I was trying my best to avoid commenting on this thread, but finally, yes, this is the point that I thought had been missed. The use of torture does not necessarily imply physical violence of malevolence. Psychological torture is I suspect much more effective. Being made subject to awful music (perhaps Kylie on an endless loop?), having your sleep patterns disrupted, perhaps being constantly offered ham sandwiches.

    Eventually everyone has a pressure point that will result in them cracking. Andy McNab's book, Bravo Two Zero, has a section on interrogation where the trainers readily admit everyone will talk, and it's just how long it takes. I think I remember reading somewhere that Mossad at one time let it be known that they wrapped the bodies (or rather parts thereof) of Palestinian suicide bombers in ham. Apparently some people believe this prevents their imaginary friend letting them into their after-life paradise... Sounds a bit silly to me, but why not play on stuff like this?

    I personally find the idea of water boarding, electric currents, and other nasty physical torture nauseous. However, I can probably live with the idea of music, disrupted sleep patterns, and other psychological methods. I certainly wouldn't want to go through it, but can see it might well be effective.

    At the moment, it's all been very black and white. You're either pro-torture or anti-torture. For those who are anti, I would ask what interrogation methods would you find acceptable? [Yes, it's not palatable, but you surely must accept that interrogation is a vital part of information gathering?]

  7. #167

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    The point is Torture (here are refer to what Climber brought up at the very beginning - water boarding) has been used for centuries and so far the result is far from positive...so I just wonder why going even more in that direction.

    Last edited by Mat; 28-11-2008 at 05:07 PM.

  8. #168

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    Quote Originally Posted by gilleshk:
    So what's the difference between a flood and a bomb? You die drowning or you die form a bomb? What if the train derailed instead of being bombed? It's just as random and terrorist attacks are so rare and so few people actually die that statistically it makes no sense... I'd wager that way more people die in Mumbai in a month from accidents than from that terrorist attack so that should be more of a worry than a random bomb.
    Well the number of terrorist acts in India is HUGE.
    Besides we are not discussing how daring and ready to die you are.

  9. #169

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonnye:
    At the moment, it's all been very black and white. You're either pro-torture or anti-torture. For those who are anti, I would ask what interrogation methods would you find acceptable? [Yes, it's not palatable, but you surely must accept that interrogation is a vital part of information gathering?]
    Well when do you begin more severe interrogation methods and with whom? Just terrorists? How about kidnappers? Drug kingpins? Murderers? Who does the interrogation? Army? Police?

    These kinds of interrogation also means that guilty or innocent doesn't matter anymore. There can be no serious rule of law to judge the guilty because there's no time so let's assume they're all guilty.

    Then I ask what makes us so much different than them? The ends jusitfy the means for our cause... They must be all guilty and if a few innocents gets hurt well that's the price to pay... Not much of a leap from the other side.

  10. #170

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonnye:
    IAt the moment, it's all been very black and white. You're either pro-torture or anti-torture. For those who are anti, I would ask what interrogation methods would you find acceptable? [Yes, it's not palatable, but you surely must accept that interrogation is a vital part of information gathering?]
    Well I guess I put myself in that middle ground earlier, though felt it was a stupid place to be. I think the sleep disruption and similar approaches I would find acceptable for information gathering (but not for confessions and not admissable in court). This is what I meant by bending the rules.
    Last edited by hullexile; 28-11-2008 at 05:14 PM.

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