Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

[gunsnroses]

I understand your anger and frustration. But that is exactly what they want, I am just arguing not to give in to them.

Thanks Hull.
You see India is a country that has too much diversity due to religion, language, caste and food. But, inspite of such many differentials ppl still manage to live with each other without too much of issues. Also, India has never tried to colonise or win any country, she has always responded to any attacks to the land.
But despite of that, our dear neighbours keep creating and supporting these acts of terror. How much the poor common ppl in India suffer and why? Why shouldn't they get fed of getting killed like insects and retaliate?

[gilleshk]

Well the number of terrorist acts in India is HUGE.
Besides we are not discussing how daring and ready to die you are.

Here are the stats not including the latest incident:
A long history of terrorism in India precedes the latest, coordinated attacks in Mumbai.The Global Terrorism Database (GTD), maintained by the National Consortium for the Study of Terrorism and Responses to Terrorism (START) based at the University of Maryland. For example, 12,539 terrorist-related fatalities in India between 1970 and 2004 - an average of almost 360 fatalities per year from terrorism in India.

Meanwhile India has the highest number of deaths for road accidents at over 100 000/year so that would be that over 34 years, there were several millions killed vs 12000 or so for terrorism. You should be a lot more worried about crossing the street it seems...

[Mat]

Here are the stats not including the latest incident:
A long history of terrorism in India precedes the latest, coordinated attacks in Mumbai.The Global Terrorism Database (GTD), maintained by the National Consortium for the Study of Terrorism and Responses to Terrorism (START) based at the University of Maryland. For example, 12,539 terrorist-related fatalities in India between 1970 and 2004 - an average of almost 360 fatalities per year from terrorism in India.

Meanwhile India has the highest number of deaths for road accidents at over 100 000/year so that would be that over 34 years, there were several millions killed vs 12000 or so for terrorism. You should be a lot more worried about crossing the street it seems...

Gilles, this is not the point here....nobody argue with the fact that road accident kill more people.

The debate here is about the necessity or not to use Torture and if so what type of torture is acceptable and what type isn't.

so no need to compare road and terrorist.

[gilleshk]

Thanks Hull.
You see India is a country that has too much diversity due to religion, language, caste and food. But, inspite of such many differentials ppl still manage to live with each other without too much of issues. Also, India has never tried to colonise or win any country, she has always responded to any attacks to the land.
But despite of that, our dear neighbours keep creating and supporting these acts of terror. How much the poor common ppl in India suffer and why? Why shouldn't they get fed of getting killed like insects and retaliate?

Oh I see, mmm who developed the atomic bomb first? Was it India or Pakistan? What is the size of the Indian army vs Pakistan? And all Indians are peace loving? No extremist groups at all living there? Who killed Gandhi and all those prime ministers? Neighbours? In a conflict, there are no innocents, everyone has to take some responsibility about the positions and actions they have taken.

[gilleshk]

Gilles, this is not the point here....nobody argue with the fact that road accident kill more people.

The debate here is about the necessity or not to use Torture and if so what type of torture is acceptable and what type isn't.

so no need to compare road and terrorist.

Well our friend here seems to be very worried about terrorism since it appears to be out of control and killing so many people to the point of worrying whether to send children out in the street. I think that's a silly emotional response to random acts of violence.

[gunsnroses]

Oh I see, mmm who developed the atomic bomb first? Was it India or Pakistan? What is the size of the Indian army vs Pakistan? And all Indians are peace loving? No extremist groups at all living there? Who killed Gandhi and all those prime ministers? Neighbours? In a conflict, there are no innocents, everyone has to take some responsibility about the positions and actions they have taken.

Great....applause applause..

[aussiegal]

Well our friend here seems to be very worried about terrorism since it appears to be out of control and killing so many people to the point of worrying whether to send children out in the street. I think that's a silly emotional response to random acts of violence.

No Gilles, as usual you pick and choose what you read so you can try and win an argument. This thread shouldn't be about winning an argument. The subject matter requires a little delicacy something obviously not your forte.

Whenever terrorism is brought up you always respond with the usual condescending diatribe about more people dying of accidents. As Mat said, this is not what is being discussed. If an accident happens it happens. There is nothing I can do to stop them for occuring. There is something much more unjust however about being shot because you happen to have been dining at the Taj.

After 9/11, Bali, London, Madrid etc nothing in my life changed but now I have to say that my life will directly or indirectly change and I will no longer sleep soundly when my husband is away on business in India. That's assuming his company even allow him to go. As I mentioned earlier he stayed at the Oberoi only 3 weeks ago, his colleagues came back from a trip only days ago and I know people who seem to have perished at the Taj. Before I used to think that if he just didn't stay at a Marriott he'd be ok. Naive for sure. Now I wonder where he/we can go without fear. I don't much care for the fact that you live your life without fear, I'm not exactly shaking in my boots but thoughts will forever cross my mind.

Hull, everything you've said here is spot on. We need to eradicate poverty, balance the inequities in people's lives, promote education.

[gilleshk]

Whenever terrorism is brought up you always respond with the usual condescending diatribe about more people dying of accidents. As Mat said, this is not what is being discussed. If an accident happens it happens. There is nothing I can do to stop them for occuring. There is something much more unjust however about being shot because you happen to have been dining at the Taj.

Completely emotional and irrational response... It doesn't matter whether a death is just or unjust, it happens and your dead either way. The reality is that your husband is more likely to die in an accident than in a terrorist attack...

This reaction is exactly what terrorist hope for...Create unfounded fears with minimal effort and loss of life on their part. I guess we can congratulate them since they are succeeding...

I know people that died in the tsunami and in the Bali bombings. Should I be more sad for the ones that died in Bali? Should I be more afraid to go to Indonesia than Thailand? How about my friend that died from cancer at the age of 30? Is that death more just than the ones in Mumbai?

[hullexile]

While I disagree with aussiegal on the torture/death penalty issue I also disagree with you on the "a death is a death" argument. Suppose your loved one was killed in a road accident. Would it make no differences to your feelings if it was (i) their own fault or (ii) killed by a drunk driver? Also deaths do have more impact the closer you are to the person. Death and our reaction to it is a very personal thing and not at all rational.

[aussiegal]

Hull we know that Gilles is a pretty callous/cold sort of guy (see his comments on not ever being with someone without a college degree or less money than him) so I can believe that he doesn't see a difference between someone dying of cancer and someone being shot when they were partying in Bali.

Yes Gilles, the terrorists are winning or haven't you worked that one out yet.