Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

[DanielandHayley]

So? They failed, what more do you want me to say?

isn't it obvious?...they should have tortured all and sundry as soon as receiving any information that there is a possibility of an attack...

[hullexile]

Fact: They had been warned about the attack 2-3 months ago. They have been told to keep an eye on the boats as well as big hotels. Which they did, but 2-3 months is a long time to sustain the high level of security and ppl got lax thinking just one of those scares.

I would assume that (seemingly very good) information came about through good intelligence work rather than torturing of prisoners because of the level of detail in it. This tends to disprove the torture or we are left unprotected against attack theory doesn't it?

[aussiegal]

You have, not for the first time, completely missed the point. You are reading what you want to see, not what I am actually saying. Stating and applying (to a small extent) the law in regard to torture, is not living in a fairytale - by definition fairytales are works of fiction - as far as I am aware, Hans Christian Andersen did not write the Geneva Convention...correct me if I am wrong.

You live in a fairytale world if you think, as some have pointed out, that you can deal with terrorists and criminals using theories that apply to regular people who follow the letter of the law. As if by taking the moral highground or by talking to them we will win. This is fiction.

[DanielandHayley]

You live in a fairytale world if you think, as some have pointed out, that you can deal with terrorists and criminals using theories that apply to regular people who follow the letter of the law. As if by taking the moral highground or by talking to them we will win. This is fiction.

Terrorism is a crime. Every civilised nation in the world has established procedures to deal with crime (as well as internationally recognised ones). It is fairly widely accepted that the worst crime that can be committed is murder. Terrorism, more often than not, results in murder. In the US, China and Indonesia, to name a few, the death penalty is an sentence available as a punishment for murder.

It is fairly clear that you believe death to be the only punishment appropriate for acts of terrorism that result in the loss of life; The Bali bombers (terrorists) were recently executed. Problem solved? Or did they die as martyrs and will they serve as further incitement (if any was needed) to the next wave of extremists who wish to carry out attacks? There is certainly no argument to suggest that by executing them a small battle has been won against terrorism, death is not a deterrent to suicide bombers.

So please explain to me exactly how you would with 'deal with it', because so far your arguments contain about as much weight and substance as a fart in the wind...

[hullexile]

You live in a fairytale world if you think, as some have pointed out, that you can deal with terrorists and criminals using theories that apply to regular people who follow the letter of the law. As if by taking the moral highground or by talking to them we will win. This is fiction.

What theories have people referred to? Not sure why you have now included criminals in this (unless you are suggesting it is now ok to torture them as well?).

How was the decades long conflict in Northern Ireland (with the terrorists actively supported in terms of finance and weaponry by citizens of that anti-terrorist hardliner the USA) brought to an end? Through torture, mass imprisonment of suspects, shoot to kill? No all these failed, what actually worked was dialogue. Now I am not suggesting the same applies to these people. I think what is needed here is more to do with cutting off their support whereas what we are doing at the moment is increasing their support.

[Lammarite]

As entertaining as it is to read- I would like to point out that none of us live in a fairy tale land. If we did, it wouldn't be a fairy tale.

I'm just saying.........

[hullexile]

As entertaining as it is to read- I would like to point out that none of us live in a fairy take land. If we did, it wouldn't be a fairy tale.

I'm just saying.........

I don't know I think I make a very good Prince Charming (or is it ugly sister?) You have to remember Aussiegal is married to an investment banker - she is used to a make believe world (only teasing aussiegal).

[Mat]

You live in a fairytale world if you think, as some have pointed out, that you can deal with terrorists and criminals using theories that apply to regular people who follow the letter of the law. As if by taking the moral highground or by talking to them we will win. This is fiction.

Fiction is 24.. and some obvisouly seem to spend a little be too much time in front of their TV....

Killing them (we have been doing it for a while now) seems not to be working (else why did it happen in Mumbai once again)

Torturing them seems not to been working too, since we can't capture the leaders/organizers

Time to maybe think about another way. Not saying I know which other way, just saying blindly claiming:
"we should torture them to get information or we should kill the bastards who did it" seems not to be the right solution.

On the other hand we have the Iranien President who sent (for the first time) his congratulations to Obama for his election. The cynic will say it is a strategy to better fuck him later. Well maybe...

But it can also be a new way of handling very sensitive situations and maybe reduce terrorist attacks -we shall see

[jayinhongkong]

I've learned over the year that hate and anger breed the same. You can't force your opinions on others and you can't use violence (or the threat of it) to get what you want. To do so is to be as bad as the terrorists. All you can do is express yourself and hope the other side understands where you're coming from. Torture will make weak people say anything, and it will be entirely ineffective against those who are intent on keeping their mouths shut because they believe they're right. People have to realize the error of their ways on their own, or they never will.

Now I'm not saying we shouldn't defend ourselves to protect our own lives. Far from it. As some of you know, I advocate the use of lethal force when it comes to saving lives. I hope if it ever comes down to it, I won't hesitate to quickly put anyone threatening my life or someone else's out of commission, be it with a gun, knife or my martial arts training.

[aussiegal]

Hull, I'm not saying that criminals should be tortured. I'm pointing out that so many people insist here that if we just follow the rules of law, abide by the geneva convention etc everything will work out fine. Until you have all parties involved playing by the same rules (something that will never happen) it's just a ludicrous thought.

Danielandhayley, I'm glad the Bali bombers were executed. They would be considered martyrs by their followers whether they were left to rot in jail or executed. These people use religion as an excuse to kill when no religion says it is ok to kill innocent people. They are violent, murderous types looking for a reason to justify their blood lust.

Again, we need to focus on education and where that doesn't work, punishment should be meted out to fit the crime. No systems are perfect, that's the very nature of having a world run by humans so we do the best we can with what we have. You don't feed a lion peanuts, you don't reason with a terrorist.