Mumbai Terrorist Attacks

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  1. #351

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    Quote Originally Posted by pinko:
    You will wait for long because of course the US government doesn't admit it is torturing people. So even if they stopped a terrorist attack because of information gathered through torture, they wouldn't tell us.
    So how could one advocate the effectivness of torture...

  2. #352

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    Quote Originally Posted by gilleshk:
    Who does the torturing? Shall we set up torturing schools?
    You forget about the School of the Americas (now WHINSEC) which, despite claims it didn't teach its students how to torture, 'was embarrassed by the public release of its "torture training manuals" in 1996.

  3. #353

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    Quote Originally Posted by Max:
    depends on how high their pain threshold is.....everyone gives in eventually.
    Not necessarily, probably the most famous being SAS operative Robert Nairac caught and tortured savagely and who was eventually killed by his assailants. This led to the famous quote from an IRA commander Liam Towson after his trial for murder "Nairac was the bravest man I ever met. He told us nothing".

    As for the battlefield, well get out there and try it first before you want to come here and comment. Although I would doubt there are any comments at all after a real battlefield experience.

  4. #354

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    Quote Originally Posted by DanielandHayley:
    So let's get this straight; a person is captured, (assuming that there is not going to be a full trial as 'time is of the essence', so therefore is innocent - he has not been proven guilty) he is then tortured to within a inch of his life, caves in and gives the information (correct or false), what then?

    He is kept in captivity, without trial just in case you want to go back and repeat the process? All along, there has been absolutely no confirmation of this person guilt...hold on, this sounds remarkably familiar..a certain prison camp in Cuba?

    Guantanamo Bay has been condemned world wide and it's practices and purpose are in undoubted breach of a variety of international laws and conventions.

    My contention throughout this discussion has been that the methods proposed by some posters (whilst I respect their opinions and rights to express them) are contrary to the law, that in order to live in a free and democratic society, which let us remember, is the remit on which the US led war on terror is based, we must be ruled by the rules, not by the rulers.

    I rest my case your honour...
    You say all this yet a few pages ago you said it was ok to kill a woman holding a package? Where is her due process?

  5. #355

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    Quote Originally Posted by SpecialK:
    You say all this yet a few pages ago you said it was ok to kill a woman holding a package? Where is her due process?
    Read my reply to your last comment quoting my post.

  6. #356

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    I did and maybe I am as thick as you think I am (and everyone who doesn't agree with you is) but I don't differentiate between a "decision taken in the 'heat of battle' as opposed to one taken to consider ones actions" as you write. As someone else just pointed out, we're not talking about walking down the street and picking up a random person and interrogating them. We're talking about picking up someone after intelligence has linked them to an imminent terrorist attack. We have been very specific. What is the difference then between the two except for a bit of time? In your scenario some poor lady with a package that may or may not be a bomb gets killed. In mine, some person that intelligence has identified as an immediate risk is interrogated and possibly tortured...


  7. #357

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    Quote Originally Posted by gilleshk:
    Really? Like what apart from nuclear power?
    I think you're ignorance here speaks volumes....but perhaps you'll do some research before speaking out of your ass.

    Well, lets see ...

    Internet
    Penicillin's use as medicine
    Jet Engine
    Computers / Supercomputers
    Numerous Automotive Innovations
    Smoke Detectors
    Food Preservatives (and things like concentrated OJ, etc.)
    Margarine
    Plastics
    Cavity Magnetron (Microwave Ovens)
    Superglue
    Aerosols
    GPS
    Radar/Sonar
    Satellites
    Rockets
    Superglue
    Certain Fabrics / Fibers..........................
    Etc, etc, etc.

    I'm sure I'm missing a ton here, but oh well...

    Oh.. just an FYI.....Innovation does not mean invention...in case you don't have a dictionary.

  8. #358

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    Quote Originally Posted by jaykay:
    Not necessarily, probably the most famous being SAS operative Robert Nairac caught and tortured savagely and who was eventually killed by his assailants. This led to the famous quote from an IRA commander Liam Towson after his trial for murder "Nairac was the bravest man I ever met. He told us nothing".

    As for the battlefield, well get out there and try it first before you want to come here and comment. Although I would doubt there are any comments at all after a real battlefield experience.

    Brave soldier to some, butcher to others....depends who you talk to, and on whose side you are on....

    Nairac: An undercover hero or a maverick fool? - News, Sunday Life - Belfasttelegraph.co.uk

    Balrog: Robert Nairac, death of a butcher!

    Heroic undercover soldier Robert Nairac was savagely executed by the IRA. Will yesterday's arrest solve the mystery of his missing body? | Mail Online

  9. #359

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    Quote Originally Posted by climber07:
    I think you're ignorance here speaks volumes....but perhaps you'll do some research before speaking out of your ass.

    Well, lets see ...

    Internet
    Penicillin's use as medicine
    Jet Engine
    Computers / Supercomputers
    Numerous Automotive Innovations
    Smoke Detectors
    Food Preservatives (and things like concentrated OJ, etc.)
    Margarine
    Plastics
    Cavity Magnetron (Microwave Ovens)
    Superglue
    Aerosols
    GPS
    Radar/Sonar
    Satellites
    Rockets
    Superglue
    Certain Fabrics / Fibers..........................
    Etc, etc, etc.

    I'm sure I'm missing a ton here, but oh well...

    Oh.. just an FYI.....Innovation does not mean invention...in case you don't have a dictionary.
    Well gee, let me see how you explain the internet as a way or tool to killing people? It was devised as a mean of communication in case of a nuclear attack and mostly used between universities for quite a while. Ah yes there could be the deadly virus released that would take command of all the nuclear missiles and point them at us?

    Let me see...perhaps Mr Genius would like to explain how margarine and penicillin are so deadly? Your quote my dear Einstein said "but most of our key innovations over the past centuries have been derived out of finding new ways to kill or destroy each other"

    In your oh so comprehensive list, I see a few that have serious militaristic applications that could actually cause deaths but I am sure the industrial/military complex would have a serious issue with your statement, many of those things are strictly to defend ourselves and are not meant to be used offensively.

    Oh please do tell us how food preservatives were devised to hasten mankind's destruction. I'm sure you can find a very vivid scenario like your state sponsored rape diatribe.

    Now if you want to say that the military/industrial complex has seriously contributed to many innovations that make our lives much better as well as making it a very dangerous world, that's a different thing.

    Is that what you meant to say by your very poorly constructed sentence? Oh and by the way...most means a great majority...perhaps you could have considered many? Do you need a dictionary to know the difference?

    I guess you learn a lot from reading Andy McNab and watching Prison Break. One can become an expert on all sorts of things...

    I see that your thought process is about as limited as the originality of your insults...Congratulations!

    Oh and please do consult the dictionary on the humongous difference between invention and innovation...

    Here's one that I found for invention: - an innovation that is both novel and non-obvious.
    Glossary of intellectual property terms

    Now if you would like to email them and tell them how stupid they are, it would be much appreciated...They would be honored to hear from your highness

  10. #360

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    Quote Originally Posted by climber07:
    ...most of our key innovations over the past centuries have been derived out of finding new ways to kill or destroy each other.
    Gilles is doing what he does best, choosing when to interpret someone's words (in this case Climber's) absolutely literally. What the rest of us realise is that Freeier meant that it is as a result of military spending that we have many things that we take for granted today.

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