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Ghosn ... what happened?

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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrgoodkat:
    Smells like a set-up to me. No way some guy who can't read or speak Japanese can manage to get around the 8 layers of financial controls and auditing Nissan has.

    Also pretty telling that Saikawa, who was accused of the same crime, wasn't arrested and was allowed to pay back the money he allegedly received too much.
    Oh he is guilty, that's for sure. I've followed this pretty extensively and good friends with one of the journalists who is writing a book on this saga. The governance at Nissan was shocking, which let him get away with this. He's already paid a big fine in the US, not something you'd expect an innocent man to be doing.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/23/b...los-ghosn.html

    The double standards re: prosecution of Saikawa and Ghosn are terrible though. Coupled with how Woodford was treated at Olympus and its not a pretty picture of either Japanese corporate culture or fair treatment of all before the law.
    mrgoodkat and AsianXpat0 like this.

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBrit:
    Some serious egg on faces here. No question in my mind he was guilty, but the way he was treated here stinks to high heaven.

    Every party looks bad in this - Ghosn, Nissan, Tokyo prosectors, whichever Keystone Cops let one of the most recognisable men in Japan fly away.... muppetry all around. This case has shone a light on the extreme powers of prosectors to detain anyone without charge for months on end - not many developed countries have a similar system, thank God.
    Japan is a face culture. I think that in the end the math was:

    Embarrassment of his "escape" < Embarrassment of the world focusing on Japan's opaque criminal justice system rather than Ghosn's accused crimes

    They let him slip away and they'll take their lumps for incompetence rather than draconian justice system.
    Last edited by huja; 31-12-2019 at 11:29 AM.

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by MABinPengChau:
    Yeah, in a Japanese company, you will always be the gaijin, no matter how much of the language you learn, how much you try to fit in, this is why HK is very refreshing to me, a much more open society.

    I am sure there are many more Japanese executives with "financial irregularities" that are not prosecuted...

    Anyway, he got out in a private plane so, yeah, pretty sure you can manage that without a passport and in the middle of the night...good for him. Something like a 99.7 percent conviction rate (not sure if that includes the many "confessions" that are extracted).
    True, but I still prefer working and living in Japan vs Hong Kong. Society is more polite, much more harmony and the sense of humour is much more self deprecating. Crime is lower and people are much much more honest. Problem is if your Japanese language skills arent great, then your career options are limited.

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by huja:
    Japan is a face culture. I think that in the end the math was:

    Embarrassment of his "escape" < Embarrassment of the world focusing on Japan's opaque criminal justice system rather than Ghosn's accused crimes

    They let him slip away and they'll take their lumps for incompetence rather than draconian justice system.
    Naaaaaaah. Not in a million years. There was no way this was officially sanctioned. Maybe some low-level official was paid off but this is a major embarrassment and was definitely not part of the plan.

    If Japan wanted to change the prosecution system they'd do so. There is no clamour to do so though - it's not a demand from the electorate and it certainly isn't the wish of the Government.
    mrgoodkat and timonoj like this.

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBrit:
    Naaaaaaah. Not in a million years. There was no way this was officially sanctioned. Maybe some low-level official was paid off but this is a major embarrassment and was definitely not part of the plan.
    I disagree but if you are right, people will literally have to fall on the sword.

  6. #16

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    And he has released a statement. This should be fun. I'm surprised they did not get an oath of silence in return for his "escape".


    https://twitter.com/lisadont/status/...282241/photo/1

    Last edited by shri; 31-12-2019 at 11:53 AM.
    MABinPengChau, huja and mokhi6 like this.

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by huja:
    I disagree but if you are right, people will literally have to fall on the sword.
    I am sort of in agreement with TheBrit here - if they'd wanted to bury this, they'd have done it "officially" and sent him off with a proper sealed agreement. This is a in no way a "win-win", now that Goshn has released a statement (assuming its not faked...).
    huja and TheBrit like this.

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by huja:
    I disagree but if you are right, people will literally have to fall on the sword.
    The of face from losing a criminal suspect who has fled justice is infinitely higher than coming to a face-saving agreement where he walks with a fine or forfeiture of some assets. Now he is free and the fun and games will start soon.
    Gatts likes this.

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBrit:
    Now he is free and the fun and games will start soon.
    Indeed.

  10. #20

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    Just for kicks, I looked up extradition policies of the countries Ghosn holds citizenship in and it looks like he's well out of the reach of Japan . . .

    From Library of Congress website. N.B. Ghosn is Brazil-born.

    According to the Brazilian Constitution, everyone is equal before the law, without distinction, guaranteeing to Brazilians and foreigners residing in the Country the inviolability of the rights to life, liberty, equality, security, and property.[1] The Constitution also provides that no Brazilian may be extradited except for a naturalized Brazilian, if extradition is requested for a common crime committed prior to naturalization or for proven involvement in unlawful traffic in narcotics and similar drugs, as provided by law.[2] Additionally, no foreigner can be extradited for a political or ideological offense.[3] The Brazilian Federal Supreme Court has original jurisdiction to try and decide extradition requests from foreign States.[4]
    From NYTimes
    Lebanon does not have an extradition treaty with Japan, according to Japan's justice ministry, making it unlikely that he could be forced to return to Tokyo to face trial.
    From Wikipedia
    Some countries, such as Austria,[16] Brazil,[17] the Czech Republic,[18] France,[19][20] Germany,[21] Japan,[22] Norway,[23] the People's Republic of China,[24] the Republic of China (Taiwan),[25] Russia,[26] Saudi Arabia,[27] Switzerland[28] and Syria,[29] forbid extradition of their own citizens. These countries often have laws in place that give them jurisdiction over crimes committed abroad by or against citizens. By virtue of such jurisdiction, they prosecute and try citizens accused of crimes committed abroad as if the crime had occurred within the country's borders (see, e.g., trial of Xiao Zhen).

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