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Covid-19: Global News - June 2020

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  1. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by SirNotAppearing:
    I'm a bit confused why it took this long to look at steroids, which was the first thing (after oxygen) I was put on when I had pneumonia.
    It might not have taken so long to use steroids, but it took this long for scientists to say they have verified evidence that it works. Doctors may have been using this since the early stages of the outbreak, but they lacked data to say with confidence it works. Because collecting data with a sufficiently large sample size takes time. But now we got that data.

  2. #72

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    That assumes some patients were not given steroids, doesn't it? Hippocratic oath is first do no harm. Not giving steroids = harm.


  3. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by SirNotAppearing:
    That assumes some patients were not given steroids, doesn't it? Hippocratic oath is first do no harm. Not giving steroids = harm.
    That's assuming doctors knew from the get-go that steroids was effective. That is not the case with Covid-19. Doctors didn't know whether steroids were effective or not. Remember, steroids is not some miracle drug, it can backfire and harm patients in some cases. Doctors cannot just give it to patients across-the-board. With Covid-19, it was applied in some cases as doctors struggled to figure out what kind of treatment can reduce mortality. And steroids happened to show effectiveness in some cases.
    Last edited by Coolboy; 17-06-2020 at 11:05 AM.

  4. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by SirNotAppearing:
    That assumes some patients were not given steroids, doesn't it? Hippocratic oath is first do no harm. Not giving steroids = harm.
    Steroids can do a lot of harm as well as being a miracle drug. My first wife was on them and was told each day on them is a week off your life expectancy.

  5. #75

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    Yes, all true. Just amazed they weren't given to patients in critical condition.


  6. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by SirNotAppearing:
    Just amazed they weren't given to patients in critical condition.
    Nobody said they weren't given to patients in critical conditon. How can scientists now say it has some effect to reduce mortalities if that is not the case? It is precisely because they were given to patients in serious condition that doctors can collect data and determine the efficacy of this treatment. But it wasn't apply across-the-board to all patients in serious condition because of potential harmful effects of the steroids. And they need to have a valid sample size to convince medical authorities, that takes time.
    Last edited by Coolboy; 17-06-2020 at 12:05 PM.

  7. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coolboy:
    Nobody said they weren't given to patients in critical conditon. How can scientists now say it has some effect to reduce mortalities if that is not the case? It is precisely because they were given to patients in serious condition that doctors can collect data and determine the efficacy of this treatment. But it wasn't apply across-the-board to all patients in serious condition because of potential harmful effects of the steroids. And they need to have a valid sample size to convince medical authorities, that takes time.
    The first sentence of the article indicates it's a low dosage treatment. (Just pointing it out. I think your opinion is valid and based on good science and don't mean to be snarky. I'm just wondering about the gray ethical areas of not giving half of a study group a drug of proven benefit. And yes, I know Covid-19 does not equal pneumonia though in many cases it does.)

  8. #78

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    The problem was that it wasn’t a “proven benefit” till they had enough data, and there are usually definite (negative) side effects with steroid use. The viewpoint is otherwise reasonable.

    As a side note, in drug trials, on rare occasions, where the benefit has been observed to dramatically outweigh the side effect profile, you do see the drug sometimes then being rapidly administered to the control group. A bit more difficult when the duration is short, the data dispersed and the condition not chronic I think, but maybe it answers the question in your mind.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4297198/
    https://emcrit.org/pulmcrit/dexa-ards/

    Last edited by AsianXpat0; 17-06-2020 at 12:46 PM. Reason: Added links
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  9. #79

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    Breaking down the Swedish approach:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4SQ-NOV-iU

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  10. #80

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    More on the great Swedish experiment forcing parents to send at risk kids to school and also forcing at risk parents to be exposed.

    https://us.yahoo.com/news/no-lockdow...092900158.html


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